Why It’s Time to Retire the Idea of Retirement with Derek Coburn

Why It’s Time to Retire the Idea of Retirement with Derek Coburn written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

 

Episode Summary

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, host John Jantsch sits down with Derek Coburn — seasoned financial advisor, entrepreneur, and author — to challenge the traditional notion of retirement. With insights from his new book, Let’s Retire Retirement, Derek outlines why the current retirement model is outdated and how a mindset shift can help people live more fulfilled lives both now and later. Whether you’re a business owner, working professional, or planning for what’s next, this episode offers a fresh framework for thinking about purpose, wealth, and work-life design.

Listen to the Episode

About Derek Coburn

Derek Coburn is a financial advisor with over 25 years of experience and the co-founder of Cadre, a curated community of CEOs and entrepreneurs. He’s the bestselling author of Networking is Not Working and a sought-after speaker on networking, wealth strategy, and purpose-driven leadership. In his latest book, Let’s Retire Retirement, he reframes what it means to live a meaningful and financially secure life—one that doesn’t hinge on the outdated idea of “stopping work at 65.”

Key Takeaways

  • The modern concept of retirement is less than 150 years old—and it no longer matches today’s realities.
  • Living longer and more actively means we need to redefine what “working years” and “rest years” really mean.
  • Deferring joy for some idealized retirement later can lead to disappointment—the time to live fully is now.
  • Working longer can dramatically reduce the pressure to save aggressively in early and mid-career years.
  • Even entrepreneurs fall into the trap of deferring dreams until “after the exit”—a dangerous delay tactic.
  • Small shifts in financial strategy (like converting to Roth 401(k)) can have big long-term impacts.

Episode Highlights and Timestamps

  • 00:01 – Introduction and guest welcome
  • 01:00 – The true history of retirement: Bismarck, FDR, and outdated milestones
  • 03:00 – Why 25–30% of retirees are going back to work
  • 05:00 – The concept of redefining retirement for personal fulfillment
  • 07:00 – Entrepreneurs and the myth of “I’ll do it after I exit”
  • 09:30 – Real-world case study: Jay Baer’s pivot from agency to tequila influencer
  • 11:00 – Financial math: how working longer cuts required savings dramatically
  • 13:00 – The 401(k) rethink: taxes, Roth conversions, and planning smarter
  • 15:00 – Parenting, presence, and valuing your $50,000 moments
  • 17:30 – The mindset shift needed to fully embrace this new paradigm
  • 19:30 – Grandparenting, legacy, and how to stay connected across generations
  • 20:30 – Where to learn more and connect with Derek

Learn More and Connect with Derek Coburn

To dive deeper into Derek’s thinking and explore tools to reframe your financial future, visit:

Enjoyed This Episode?

If you liked this conversation, be sure to subscribe to the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast for more candid discussions with authors, entrepreneurs, and thought leaders shaping how we work and live. Share this episode, leave a review, and let us know what part of Derek’s perspective resonated most with you.

John Jantsch (00:01.085)

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Derek Coburn. He’s a seasoned financial advisor and entrepreneur with over 25 years of experience. He is the co-founder of Cadre, an exclusive community of CEOs and entrepreneurs, which he launched with his wife, Melanie. Derek is also the author of the bestselling book, Networking is Not Working. And we’re going to talk about his latest book today.

Let’s retire retirement, how to enjoy life to the fullest now and later. So Derek, welcome back to the show.

Derek Coburn (00:34.85)

Thanks, John. So happy to be here.

John Jantsch (00:36.797)

So I know you’ve done some research on this, so I’m just going to ask you, like, where did retirement come from? Did people in the Middle Ages retire, or is that like a kind of a new thing?

Derek Coburn (00:45.838)

Yeah, it’s barely 100 years old. It first started in 1889. It was the first social program developed in Germany by a chancellor named Otto von Bismarck. And they selected the age of 70 at the time because that was the age that most people died. They brought it down to 65 about 10 years later.

FDR when he was setting up social security in 1935, thought it sounded like a good number at a time when life expectancy in this country was 71. So, you know, it’s barely over 100 years old and it was certainly never intended to be this thing that you, you know, did for 30 plus years.

John Jantsch (01:28.883)

So is that, is that, is, was that an alternate title of your book? Work till you die?

Derek Coburn (01:35.328)

I’m not sure, you know, I think that might not have gone over as well. Dan Pink like five or six years ago told me, like, I think a good title for your book would be How to Never Retire. And I thought it’s a good title, but I told him that I think that there’s just not enough people, certainly not then, that were raising their hand and knew they already did not want to work. I felt like I needed to have a title that was more inclusive to bring people in and with, you know, with dangling a carrot and then kind of trick them once I got their attention.

John Jantsch (01:38.683)

You

John Jantsch (02:05.235)

Yeah. Well, and we’ll get back to how you’re defining retirement because that’s key to this. you know, as a financial advisor, mean, most financial advisors spend a whole lot of time talking about people saving for retirement. So how, I mean, has that been something you’ve had to kind of correct in your own advising or is that something that’s never really been a part of your MO?

Derek Coburn (02:27.694)

You know, I’ve just been doing this. And the reason that I wrote decided to write this book in 2017 is I realized that collectively the best thing that I had done for the majority of my clients is help them come to the realization that they weren’t going to be happy sitting around doing nothing for 30 years. And I started off writing this book with the intention to use it as a business card to attract more high net worth clients that I might want to work with. But I sold my practice to a private equity company in 2019 and

got some flexibility and then COVID happened. I kind of set it aside for a number of years and I feel like now, because I’m not looking to grow that practice, I was able to write a book that would appeal to a broader audience, be helpful to a broader audience. to your point, financial advisors are not saying, do you want to retire? They’re saying, what age do you want to retire? And everyone is being opted into this concept and they’re just going along with it, I think, without really questioning whether it’s going to make sense for them or not.

John Jantsch (03:27.251)

Yeah. And of course, one variable to this whole thing is that we’re all living longer, right? mean, 65, you you were maybe incapable of doing a whole lot more, you know, a hundred years ago in the workplace, but right. now, you know, well, it’s Warren Buffett, like 90. You know, I mean, so, so how does that factor into this idea that, you know, if you retired 65, I mean, you are probably looking at 25, 30 years.

Derek Coburn (03:38.765)

Yeah.

Derek Coburn (03:44.429)

Yep.

Derek Coburn (03:54.22)

Yeah, well, you’re seeing this, this on, on retirement movement that’s starting to happen. Brian Clark is doing some cool things around it with his new project further, but essentially 25 to 30 % of people who have, who have traditionally retired or going back to work. Some of them are doing it for the money, but most of them are doing it because they missed the connection, the purpose, the ability to, to, to contribute in, in a meaningful way.

And I think there’s just a lot of people that have gone along with this. They were told if they made sacrifices and did things a certain way that they were going to be rewarded. They were going to be rewarded with this free time and this happiness and this ability to do whatever they want to do. it’s not playing out the way that they thought it was going to.

John Jantsch (04:36.925)

Well, and even worse, maybe they worked themselves to the bone, worked more hours, sacrificed their family with the promise of what comes after, right? And then when they got there, it didn’t come, right?

Derek Coburn (04:45.518)

Yeah.

Derek Coburn (04:49.802)

Exactly. Yep. Like the arrival fallacy, this promise that it would be a certain way and then it’s not.

John Jantsch (04:55.719)

Yeah. So that’s a big part of your book. And that’s why I saying, I think you’re saying let’s retire retirement, but you’re also redefining retirement. Aren’t you a little bit in this and a big part of the book is like, let’s have a personally fulfilling life right now.

Derek Coburn (05:10.882)

Yeah, I think that a lot of people just don’t realize how well the math works out. So I’m saying to work longer, but I’m also saying that by recognizing that you’ll probably work longer, it should translate into you not feeling like you have to work a lot of extra hours now when maybe your kids need you more, or maybe when you want to travel or date your spouse more aggressively. It’s more about taking advantage of the fact that this income will be coming in in the future.

And it’s sort of sponsoring the idea that you can do these other things and invest in these other relationships and skills and experiences in a way that maybe you didn’t think you were able to when you wanted to stop at 65.

John Jantsch (05:48.243)

Your next book, I’m sorry I got distracted there, Derek, your next book is Date Your Spouse More Aggressively.

Derek Coburn (05:54.478)

That’s maybe like the second or third time I’ve said that out loud, but.

John Jantsch (06:01.407)

So, you know, there’s a book I read a few years ago that I thought made a lot of sense. I I might get the title wrong. was something like Die Broke, but the idea was that a lot of people also just hang on to all this money that they, you know, squirrel away for retirement instead of like giving it to their kids or their grandkids to send them to college now. You know, like my children when they’re 55 probably don’t need my money.

as, as much as they might now. And, I think that idea of take that, you know, take that vacation now, you know, do that big trip, you know, now, because when you’re 75, 80, maybe you don’t go to China or you don’t go to Vietnam or something, because it’s hard.

Derek Coburn (06:40.724)

Yeah, you I think you’re referring to Die with Zero by Bill Perkins and really good book, you know, and I think that one area where maybe we differ a little bit is he’s making the case that you’re going to enjoy a trip to Europe more when you’re 35 than when you’re 50. You’re not going to be as physically capable to do some of these things, but I’m of the belief, and there’s a lot of science that backs this up, to where if you’re taking better care of yourself now, if you’re going on more trips now, if you’re

John Jantsch (06:43.813)

Yeah, that’s it. That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah.

Derek Coburn (07:09.29)

If you’re more active now, you’re more likely to be able to continue doing those things in the future. It’s really the people that aren’t doing those things that I think are going to have a harder time with

John Jantsch (07:14.803)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I’m actually an avid bike rider and I’m doing a triathlon this year, you know, and I’m 65 and my fear is if I stop doing those, I won’t be able to do it anyway.

Derek Coburn (07:26.499)

Yeah.

Derek Coburn (07:31.424)

I think it’s a valid fear and it’s a fear well backed by science that agrees with you.

John Jantsch (07:35.953)

Yeah. I do have to let the cat out of the bag there. The triathlon I’m doing is a run fish drink. So not exactly, not exactly the same thing, but so you have obviously in your financial practice, I mean, that’s, that’s like literally your research lab, right? To some degree, but then also cadre, you know, you work with a lot of high powered CEOs, folks that run their own companies in that that are

Derek Coburn (07:46.85)

That’s a good one. Yeah.

John Jantsch (08:05.117)

probably looking at, you know, they’re not looking at the pension plan, you retirement. How has that kind of informed some of your views?

Derek Coburn (08:09.325)

Yeah.

Derek Coburn (08:12.738)

What’s interesting is even the people that sort of know that they’re never going to stop working, they’re still living their life like they’re going to. They’re still making financial decisions and choices based on the fact they’re going to retire at 65 like everyone else. So for example, when they meet with their financial advisors, they’re saying, like, what do I need to do to stop working at 65 and to stop doing this? And I would say that with entrepreneurs and business owners, sometimes it’s not

John Jantsch (08:28.465)

Run.

Derek Coburn (08:42.262)

retirement, but it’s I’ll get around to doing X once I have an exit, once I bring in a CEO, once I bring in someone else. And I think that that it’s the same story. It’s the it’s justifying deferring maybe things in relationships that deserve more of your attention right now in the name of getting around to it once you have a certain amount of money or a certain financial experience or exit from your business.

John Jantsch (09:04.637)

Yeah, yeah.

Are you finding, you know, I think some, to some degree, we’re talking about just extending how long you work, but what about a major pivot? You know, it’s like, I’ve, I’ve been doing this for 30 years, done what I want to do here. I want to go do something different. I’m not going to retire, but I’m going to do something totally different. Maybe something that I think is seems totally cool or that I’m more prepared to do today.

Derek Coburn (09:28.59)

Yeah, like so I have an entire chapter. It’s the longest chapter in my book that’s that’s that are case studies about people that have that have taken this and they’ve gone into a lot of different directions. And one one maybe that might be fun to share with you is just our mutual friend, Jay Bear, who I spoke with for the book and Jay sold his agency, I think early on in covid and was sitting around and decided he wanted to start making videos about tequila.

John Jantsch (09:43.475)

Mm-hmm.

Derek Coburn (09:54.73)

And, you know, so he went from that to really leaning into one of his passions and one of his interests. And after sharing the case study, I have a callback later in the book to say, look, I mean, if J. Bear can make a lot of money, you know, drinking tequila and talking about it on video, then I’m sure that there’s a lot of different cool ideas out there that are waiting for you as well.

John Jantsch (10:17.489)

Yeah, that also necessitated some amount of travel to some places he hadn’t spent time into. I think it really…

Derek Coburn (10:25.484)

I think he’s mostly hurt by the fact that more people recognize him as the tequila guy than the keynote speaker.

John Jantsch (10:32.595)

He’s still doing a fair amount of that too. talk about some of the changes, maybe they’re not changes, but if somebody is going to read you, pick up your book and, and really the ideas in it just resonate. What are some of the changes that you they’re probably going to encounter or, maybe it’s just mindset.

Derek Coburn (10:54.57)

Yeah, one of the first things that I want to want to point out is just the financial impact it’s going to have. And so I share an example in the book about a fictitious guy named Tony who’s 45 years old. makes one hundred and fifty thousand a year and he has one hundred and fifty thousand dollars saved up for retirement. You could call it two fifty five hundred, one hundred thousand, whatever you want it to be. But if Tony wants to have a traditional retirement at sixty five, he has to save about twenty five hundred dollars per month in order to make that happen, which is.

20 % of what he’s bringing home, which is a non-starter for most people. That would mean that you are saving about what you’re living on. If Tony decides to work until he’s 75 instead of 65, the amount he has to save on a monthly basis goes from 2,500 down to $110 per month. It goes down by 96%. And even if he doesn’t want to work until he’s 75, he wants to go until he’s 70, it goes down 75 % to 600 bucks a month.

John Jantsch (11:40.136)

Mm.

Derek Coburn (11:50.518)

And so we’ve all seen these articles that make us feel really dumb about how we should have saved more when we were 22 years old and taking advantage of compounding interest. And while a lot of us didn’t do that, and even if we would have done that, we weren’t really earning a lot of money at that time compared to what we’re earning now. Anyways, there aren’t a lot of articles talking about the benefits of having the advantage of compounding interest by letting it sit in for an extra five or 10 years longer.

Immediately, I want people to know, I want people to see they have a lot more money and a lot more time that they can spend differently once they realize, you know, I’ll probably be doing this a little bit longer than what I was originally thinking.

John Jantsch (12:28.657)

Yeah, I mean, doesn’t even factor in, assuming it’ll be there for a few more years. Doesn’t even factor in the escalation to social security, right? Yeah.

Derek Coburn (12:36.022)

Yeah, exactly. I’ll tell you like something maybe more specifically 401k plans became all the rage, mainly because the idea that I can put money away on a tax free basis while I’m working get a tax deduction based on my current tax bracket. And when I pull it out, I won’t be working. So I’ll be at a lower tax bracket. And that seems like a no brainer to anyone when you lay it out like that. But once

John Jantsch (12:42.259)

Mm-hmm.

John Jantsch (12:56.315)

Over. Yeah.

Derek Coburn (13:02.166)

someone realizes there’s a good chance they might be working into their 70s and they’re going to be taking required minimum distributions from their 401k plan and they’re still earning an income, then maybe they’re not in a lower tax bracket.

John Jantsch (13:13.331)

Also, also that tax got tax higher bracket

Derek Coburn (13:17.546)

Yeah, maybe this 401k plan isn’t as good of a deal as it seems. without getting too technical here, like an easy fix for that, right, is I think over 90 % of 401k plans right now have the option to convert it to a Roth. And that might be something that people want to do where they’re making their contributions on a post-tax basis. But that’s just one example of maybe how your thinking should change a little bit once you realize you might be working a little bit longer.

John Jantsch (13:22.696)

Grrrr

John Jantsch (13:43.251)

You’ve also missed, you know, I know in our case, we have a 3 % match on the, you know, employer match. So that certainly helps that out a little bit.

Derek Coburn (13:52.406)

Yeah, and I say that’s the place even like even maybe before you work to aggressively build up your emergency reserve fund. If you’re getting a match, probably take advantage of that.

John Jantsch (14:01.233)

Yeah. Yeah. Plus owners, you know, have the ability to profit share into a 401k. So, you know, which I may or may not have taken full advantage of every one of those.

Derek Coburn (14:11.95)

Wow, amazing. Yep.

John Jantsch (14:17.455)

Is there any lifestyle change? Because I am here, I’m just going to work longer, right? So how does that affect my spouse? How does that affect other lifestyle things? that something that’s going to be realistic in that regard?

Derek Coburn (14:37.39)

I’ll give you like an even short-term example of how it’s playing out for me and some people I know. So I have a 15 and a 12 year old and I spend a significant amount of time with them, with my wife, with my friends compared to most people I know. Yeah, exactly. And one of the driving factors behind that is that when my youngest moves out of the house in five and a half years,

John Jantsch (14:52.115)

as your Instagram account will attest.

Derek Coburn (15:05.006)

I’m going to be ready to turn it up a notch. I’m going to be ready to work even more than I’m working now. And just knowing that I’m going to have this income coming in in five or six years really frees me up and liberates me to lean into spending as much time with them as possible. And I think that’s just the more shorter term, more abbreviated version of how it works in my mind for thinking about what I’m going to be doing 20, 30 years from now.

John Jantsch (15:29.713)

Are you doing any coaching workshops, anything outside of the book?

Derek Coburn (15:35.2)

Yeah, I’m not. know, I’m open to it. I’m interested in it, but I feel really good about where I’m where I’m going right now in this message that I have to share. you know, we’ll see where it goes. I’ve been a lot of people ask me, but I’ve just never.

John Jantsch (15:47.443)

Because I could, yeah, yeah. And because I think one of the challenges, it’s not necessarily just a, implement these five steps in this framework. you’ll be, I mean, it’s really a mindset first, right? I have to accept this idea because I’ve spent my whole life thinking a different idea.

Derek Coburn (16:05.71)

Yeah. Yeah. mean, look, and I’ll give you an example of that. I mean, I have clients who are in their 70s who have significant assets, right? I’ll say client A has, client A and client B both have $15 million. Client A and client B could spend their money as much as they want from now until they pass away and they’re going to be fine. Client A is working a job making about $100,000 $150,000 a year.

doing things the way they want to do on their terms, how they want to do it, and client B is not doing anything at all. Client A is spending their money in so much more of a carefree way. I think mainly because they know they’re still making money, that’s still coming in. They haven’t entered that phase where, my gosh, all I’m doing is taking out right now. So I’d better be.

John Jantsch (16:51.635)

Or or or watching the news or the stock market to see what happened to my retirement account, right?

Derek Coburn (16:57.038)

Yeah, exactly. But I agree with you. mean, it’s, you know, even again, like even the people that that know they’re going to work longer, they haven’t really done the software update to to, you know, make a change to how they’re living their lives.

John Jantsch (17:10.407)

Yeah. Yeah. So are there first steps? mean, is there like, how do you, how do you get people rethinking their retirement plans?

Derek Coburn (17:18.956)

Well, you know, it’s a couple of ways. One is I shared the example about how they now have more money just by realizing, and that usually makes people feel a lot better about leaning into it. gosh, yeah, I’ll easily work an extra couple of years. I would say that

John Jantsch (17:33.777)

Are there, there calculators? mean, have you developed calculators that could actually allow somebody to put that, those numbers in? Yeah. Okay.

Derek Coburn (17:39.168)

Yeah, I have a calculator on my website, which I can share with you. It’s DerekCoburn.com forward slash never retire. And it kind of allows people to enter in their own numbers and, plug in and see the difference that it would make. But, but it’s that, but it’s also combined with, with maybe, you know, appealing to their fears and their concerns. So one of the, one of the examples I share in the book is when my boys were 10 and five or 10 and seven, we had a nighttime routine where we would take turns.

John Jantsch (17:48.349)

Good, good. Yeah.

Derek Coburn (18:07.606)

my wife and I laying in bed with them for 10 or 15 minutes and helping them settle down and go to sleep. And it’s really nice when they’re that little. and I caught myself with my oldest. I’m like, this is not going to last much longer. And here I am most nights wishing it would hurry up and end, hurry up and fall asleep. I’m not telling him this, but I’m saying it to myself. I want to go watch a show. I want to go finish this work, respond to this email. And I really worked hard. was like, I want to appreciate this and value it more.

John Jantsch (18:23.187)

Yes, yes, yes.

John Jantsch (18:28.659)

Right, right, right.

Derek Coburn (18:36.046)

So I had this thought, you what if a company invents a time machine? And 20 years from now, they offer me the opportunity to stroke a check, to go back in time for one night with the 10 year old version of my kid for one nighttime routine, one nighttime snuggle, what would I pay for that? And I called it 50 grand. I’d pay more than that, I know that 65 year old me would pay 50 grand in a heartbeat to do that. And I think we’re just having…

parents are having these $50,000 moments happening all the time that we’re taking for granted. And I think me personally, I’m gonna really miss my kids when they’re gone. And I know there’s gonna be a new phase. I know that it’s gonna be good, hopefully. I know that our relationship will evolve, but I really don’t think that parents are spending the amount of time that they’ll wish they would have spent with their kids.

John Jantsch (19:26.523)

Yeah, it’s interesting. I’m in a different phase and then I, you know, I have grandchildren now and I will tell you that, you know, college is a different phase. But, you know, post college is really, I mean, we, we spend, you know, they’re all over the country now and we spend a fair amount of time, you know, with them as individual family units. And, you know, I will say that’s pretty cool as well.

Derek Coburn (19:30.648)

Yeah.

Derek Coburn (19:48.376)

Yeah, I see how you’re doing it, man. I have a lot of respect and I have no doubt that you guys are just amazing grandparents.

John Jantsch (19:55.859)

Well, that’s one that there’s, you know, just like parenting, there’s no like course or book that you can read that will actually allow you to know how to do it. So making it up every day. Absolutely. Well, Derek, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by. It’s always great to catch up with you. Is there someplace you’d you already mentioned Derek Coburn.com? Is there anywhere else you’d mentioned that people might want to connect with you or find more about the book?

Derek Coburn (20:06.786)

First time that we’re all doing this, yeah.

Derek Coburn (20:21.676)

Yeah, that’s great. Like I’ve already been writing and elaborating on a lot of the ideas from the book that aren’t in the book on my website. I’m really just looking forward to starting a movement and seeing how far we can take this thing. So I appreciate you having me here and it’s always wonderful to spend the time with you.

John Jantsch (20:32.486)

Awesome.

John Jantsch (20:35.953)

Yeah. Well, again, appreciate you coming by and hopefully we’ll see you one these days out there on the road.

Derek Coburn (20:40.834)

Thanks, John.

How The Nova Method Is Redefining PR and Brand Trust in the Age of AI

How The Nova Method Is Redefining PR and Brand Trust in the Age of AI written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Listen to the full episode:

 

Christine Perkett on the DTM PodcastIn this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interviewed Christine Perkett, a veteran entrepreneur and marketing communications expert with nearly 30 years in the field. Christine is the co-founder and CEO of The Nova Method, a PR and communications firm grounded in what she calls an “audience-first strategy,” built for a world shaped by AI, automation, and fractured trust.

Christine shares how she and her partner merged their agencies to build a unified brand focused on aligning the speed and scale of technology with the soul of human communication. We dig into how AI is changing PR, why trust is harder (and more critical) than ever, and how to prepare your brand to resonate—not just engage—in the modern media landscape.

She introduces the Nova Method’s signature framework—Assimilate, Align, Activate—and breaks down how even big brands are still getting it wrong when they forget to deeply understand their audience before launching a campaign. From the Bud Light controversy to LinkedIn’s algorithm shift, this conversation covers the tactical and strategic shifts every marketer needs to navigate in the new era of comms.

Key Takeaways:

  • AI isn’t just automation—it’s an editorial and strategic thought partner that still needs human oversight to stay on-brand and truthful.
  • PR is now fully embedded in SEO, trust-building, and brand reputation, making it essential for discoverability and authority in search.
  • The Nova Method Framework—Assimilate, Align, Activate—ensures brands build real audience understanding before launching campaigns.
  • Brand trust is now built (or broken) in real-time, especially as social media and AI-generated content multiply.
  • Crisis communication is no longer optional—brands must have policies and playbooks, especially as employee-generated content and AI blur the lines.
  • Executive presence matters more than ever, with platforms like LinkedIn favoring individual contributors over faceless brands.
  • Small businesses need to give customers options—some want bots, others want humans. The key is understanding your audience journey.

Chapters:

  • 00:00 Intro and Christine’s Background
  • 01:00 Why Merge PR Firms Now?
  • 02:30 How AI is Reshaping PR and Journalism
  • 04:00 Building Trust in a Distrustful Landscape
  • 05:45 Using AI Strategically (Not Just for Tasks)
  • 07:12 The Nova Method Framework: Assimilate, Align, Activate
  • 09:00 Case Study: Bud Light’s Audience Disconnect
  • 11:00 Preparing for Real-Time Crisis in a Viral World
  • 14:00 Why AI Policies Are Essential for Brands
  • 15:20 Transparency and Trust as Core PR Assets
  • 16:30 PR, SEO, and AI Search Authority
  • 17:40 Assessing Brand Communications Internally and Externally
  • 19:10 Why LinkedIn Prefers People Over Brands
  • 20:30 Your Employees Are Your Brand
  • 22:00 When to Automate, When to Be Human
  • 23:00 Giving Customers Choice in Communication
  • 24:00 Final Thoughts and Where to Find Christine

Connect with Christine:

John Jantsch (00:00.888)

Hello and welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Christine Perkett. She’s a seasoned entrepreneur and marketing communications expert with nearly, can I say 30 years? Is that okay to say in 30 years? I know sometimes, I mean, I start saying that about myself. Anyway, she’s a CEO and co-founder of the Nova Method, a marketing communications and PR firm that emphasizes audience first strategy.

John Jantsch (00:30.626)

So Christine, welcome to the show.

Christine Perkett (00:35.561)

Thank you. Thanks for having me. It’s good to see you.

John Jantsch (00:37.666)

You bet.

So I mentioned the Nova method. Let’s just start there. Does the world need a merged company? I know you merged with a friend, your two PR firms to create this Nova method. How does that, what does that look like? How does that differ from what you’ve always done?

Christine Perkett (00:59.677)

Well, it’s very different in that I, as you mentioned, almost 30 years of doing this on my own and leading an agency on my own with really wonderful people, one of whom was Michelle in the very beginning. She was my managing director for some time. But the reason that we merged is we see power in the pair and more brains the better and we are…

wonderfully very similar and at the same time bring very different strengths. So my agency started out as strictly PR as you know because I think we talked a lot back then as well and then in the early 2000s we sort of merged into more marketing and PR. We did a lot of social media. We led the way in content on Twitter and those sorts of things, video content and so we started dabbling in more of that and that’s kind of where I’ve been focused the last 10.

to 12, 15 years, and she stayed on the PR side. So we had complimentary skill sets and teams to bring together.

John Jantsch (02:03.63)

And you’re in the Boston area and she’s in Denver, right? I’m just up the road then in the mountains in Denver as well. you mentioned already, started to mention, know, the digital, when digital came along that really dramatically changed the traditional PR landscape. AI is probably changing it in a whole new set of ways. You want to talk a little bit about kind of

Christine Perkett (02:09.951)

So, beautiful.

John Jantsch (02:30.38)

what’s been the transformation of what we’ve called PR over the years.

Christine Perkett (02:35.327)

Sure, I mean, think it’s merging and melding with so many other parts of marketing now, ever since, you know, social media came on to the scene and we started turning into content creators as well as communicators. So our focus is on marketing communications and PR and that continues to be a lot of media relations, but even with the PR side anyway, even with media relations, there’s a lot of AI written journalism. There are a lot of journalists who are saying,

I’m going to send you an interview to do video writing. Don’t use AI. Don’t do that. So, you know, there’s a lot of pressure, I think, on the the PR world to pivot and stay abreast of these new technologies, but also be leading them to help clients understand how to navigate the new world of communications with AI integrated into that.

John Jantsch (03:28.696)

You know, I’ve always thought brand is one of the most important elements of a marketing strategy. And I think that a lot of companies, it’s getting, you know, the, you know, we used to just go to Twitter and say, click on my link and we’d send people back to our website, right? All the social platforms are, you know, they penalize you for sending people away. But by the same token, a lot of people are getting their information.

exclusively from AI overviews or maybe from watching TikTok videos, right? So I feel like we’re entering this era where people are re doubling down on, you know, what it means to be a trusted brand. And I think PR has probably always been one of the best tools for that.

Christine Perkett (04:14.803)

Yes, I would agree. And I think you’re right. I don’t know, last week or the week before, I had a bit of a back and forth with some folks on LinkedIn about this, that the trust is more important than ever now, and building it is more difficult than ever. Because there’s deep fakes, there are automated content that isn’t very thoughtful. If folks are not training their staff, if leaders are not training their staff and their teams to be thoughtful about their use of AI or even

John Jantsch (04:27.842)

Mm-hmm.

Christine Perkett (04:44.021)

how to integrate it into their daily work, everyone’s work ends up looking the same, right? You can’t just throw something in the chat GPT and then send it to your client. It would be very vanilla, it could be wrong. So I think that there are some steps that some brands have skipped when it comes to AI in terms of making sure or even acknowledging that their staff will be using it, especially communications and marketing staff or writing and content and ideation.

acknowledging that that is happening, whether they blessed it or not, and then giving guidelines and processes on how to integrate it. That’s a big part of what we’re seeing from the communication side on the internal piece, internal communications is how do we navigate this? How do we create a process around it? How do we keep our employees communicating in an honest and authentic way while still taking advantage of all the benefits that AI does deliver, right? In terms of…

speed and ideation and those sorts of things.

John Jantsch (05:44.642)

Well, and I, you know, we, I just did an interview with Jeff Woods, who’s written a book called the AI Driven Leader. And, you know, he often refers to it as a thought partner. And I think that, I think that’s really where a lot of people miss the boat is it can actually help you think more strategically, not just do tasks.

Christine Perkett (06:02.129)

Yes, and I love that. also think it’s a great editor. So it’s really leveling the playing field with communication specifically, since that’s my area of expertise is, you know, everyone can spell now and everyone can turn out thoughtful content, but you still need to build the trust by having it be authentic to you, authentic to your brand, authentic to the brand’s voice. So it still takes that human touch. We like to say,

John Jantsch (06:14.157)

Yeah.

Christine Perkett (06:28.435)

at the Nova method that we are at the intersection of humanity and technology. And I don’t think that’s so different than what I’ve always done since we’re in tech PR and marketing, but it is a stronger, faster moving technology than the past tools that have come along.

John Jantsch (06:37.837)

Yeah.

John Jantsch (06:44.622)

Well, I always think it’s funny because, know, a lot of, a lot of times people are like, you don’t want to just give this and cut and paste. Well, like, you know, what we used to do is hire interns to do that first draft. Right. And we never would just say, yeah, send it to the client. You know, I don’t need to see it. Right. I mean, it’s kind of the same thing. You wouldn’t just do that. Would you, you know, why would you do that with this automated tool? So tell me a little bit about, I know that you are,

Christine Perkett (07:05.417)

I really like that. That’s a good analogy. Yes.

John Jantsch (07:12.578)

Developing a framework or have developed a framework that you are putting out there is somewhat unique. I think I read three A’s, assimilate, align, activate as part of what you’re calling the Nova method. You want to kind of go through a little bit of a dive into that.

Christine Perkett (07:28.661)

Sure, thank you for the opportunity. there are a lot of PR, the competitive landscape is large for PR marketing. And, you know, we really took a year to build this brand, our own brand and say, what can we do that’s different? What do we really need to be doing in the landscape of AI and, fast moving technology and security and cookies changing and all of those things. So as we both actually, Michelle, my partner and I both

John Jantsch (07:35.352)

Yeah.

Christine Perkett (07:57.639)

have taught at the college level as well. So I teach a graduate social media and branding program at Northeastern. She teaches PR or taught PR rather. And so we both have the advantage of understanding and staying abreast of what’s happening. And that involves a lot of case studies. And we were taking a look at those as we were forming our brand. What’s missing? What happens when there’s a crisis? What caused it? And just one example is

It seems that every marketer tactically knows you should be coming at your marketing communications from an audience-first mentality. What does the audience need? How do they think? What are their aspirations and motivations? Yes, intellectually, everyone knows that. From a tactical execution standpoint, even the best and biggest brands have faltered recently with that. And one of the…

most popular case studies that I like to go through with my students and what helped us build this brand in terms of step one, which is assimilate, really dig in, not just demographics, but get into the psyche of your audience, whether it’s internal, whether it’s external being media, VCs, partners, what are their motivations? What do they really want to hear from you? What are their pain points? And I think that one of the biggest brands that faced some pain around that in the last few years is Bud Light.

when they tried to connect with the LGBTQ community without a very audience-centric campaign plan. They sent a transgender spokesperson a can with their face on it, and they went on to TikTok and did a recording. Thank you, Bud Light. This is great. I love it.

But it wasn’t well planned and there wasn’t a deep audience immersion before they made that decision, which ended up alienating both their existing customers. I think it was Kid Rock took Bud Light out and shot them the cans up and said he would never drink it again. And the community they were trying to connect with for the first, well, one of the first times. And they really had an opportunity to connect with that audience, but I don’t think they understood the audience well enough before they did this.

Christine Perkett (10:11.539)

It wasn’t even a full campaign before they did this event or whatever you want to call it. So if even a storied, well-known, well-resourced brand like Bud Light can get it wrong, we thought, well, there’s probably a lot of other brands that could use help really digging in and connecting with their audience. So that’s a long-winded way to say that step one. So assimilating with whatever audience it is that this particular campaign is going to focus on. And then…

So it’s assimilate, align, then align that information with what the brand wants to say. What does the brand want to accomplish? What are the goals? How do we align that with what the customer or prospect wants and needs? And then activate is pretty self-explanatory, activating it in an ongoing campaign or process or whatever it may be. So whether it’s internal communications, external communications, et cetera.

John Jantsch (11:04.448)

One of the biggest challenges that certainly social media brought AI is probably accelerating this a little bit, but, you know, brands have a lot of exposure now because that they didn’t have, you know, 20 years ago, because as long as you didn’t show up on page one or two of the business section, it didn’t really matter what you did. it seemed like what’s that or paid six, right? it almost didn’t matter, you know, to

Christine Perkett (11:24.329)

page six in New York.

John Jantsch (11:31.042)

too much. mean, you could always spin it and control it, but now you can have hundreds of people making videos about how awful your brand is. so, so what kind of challenges does that really present? And some, mean, some of them are completely legit. Some of them are, you know, taken out of context or faked or, you know, done as, mean, can be done for, you know, by somebody just trying to hurt the brand, not necessarily, you know, a, a true, act. So, you know, how do you,

You know, how do you protect brands from really kind of, you know, stepping into, you know, situations, because it’s so darn easy to do now. mean, even, you know, every employee’s got a tick tock, know, account, and, know, can really be doing something to damage the brand, you know, intentionally or unintentionally.

Christine Perkett (12:22.869)

So that’s a really good point. I do think brands are more exposed than ever, which goes back to our previous point that they need to work harder than ever to build authentic trust. so brands have a, communicators, marketers have a big challenge between using something like AI, which can be very fast and efficient, but can turn out false information if you’re not checking it. So we still need that human touch and that human

qualification if you will to make sure that anything you’re putting out there as a brand is authentic and if you remain true to that over time and consistently in all of your campaigns even if there’s a crisis you will be able to recover because you’ve built up that credibility and that reputation but it has to connect it has to connect over time and it has to connect over campaigns so

Brands need to think about it holistically, even if they’re doing all of these individual campaigns. What is the brand promise ultimately to audiences? And it almost goes back to fundamentals of communication, which is to be straightforward, consistent, aware, and accountable. A brand’s gonna get nowhere if they don’t take accountability if they make a mistake or if they communicate something incorrectly.

or they offended someone because they used a hashtag, well, hashtags are kind of dying, but if they use a hashtag that was related to something that they didn’t double check before they use it and it was a negative situation, for example. Brands have to fall on their sword, always and forever. And sometimes you do have to deal with internet trolls and that’s a challenge in and of itself, which should have a crisis communications around it that you have built and…

John Jantsch (14:03.992)

Yeah.

Christine Perkett (14:13.973)

have practiced internally, regardless of whether or not you’ve ever needed it. But other things come up with the AI say, again, you have an employee maybe puts information out there because they use ChatGP, GPT, they didn’t have a supervisor check it, or they didn’t have a teammate check it, or they didn’t even check it themselves. They just trusted the AI and it was false information. So again, that goes back to one of my points in the beginning, which is

have a policy, you need to have an AI policy and make sure that you’re training people on how to use it and how to use it specifically to your brand and what your brand promises. So I think it’s simple in its finest point, which is going back to being authentic, but it has to go across everything that you do, including the use of AI. And that means admitting your brand probably uses AI, right?

I think saying that you won’t use it probably gets more of a side eye these days than if you say, yeah, I’m using it.

John Jantsch (15:17.698)

Yeah, I’m, actually starting to see, you know, like we have privacy and disclaimer policies on our websites. I’m starting to see our use of AI statement, showing up as pages, just so people are very clear about how they’re using it how they’re not using it. think, I think transparency is obviously always been a big part of PR. So what, one of the reasons I always loved PR early on, w in the digital age is because it was always really a great SEO play. I mean, getting a backlink from.

Christine Perkett (15:26.676)

Yes.

John Jantsch (15:45.592)

New York times.com businessweek.com, know, would really helped your, your online presence. I think that that’s becoming even more so because a lot of it appears that the, you know, the AI tools are actually putting a lot of emphasis on, on authority and on brand mentions, as, know, because when they’re turning up results now, when somebody goes searching and they’re sourcing, results, I’m seeing a lot of emphasis on brand mentions and authority.

So do you, and maybe you don’t play in that, you know, that sandbox, you know, as part of what you’re doing, but do you see PR, how do you see PR kind of intersecting with the evolving world of search these days?

Christine Perkett (16:31.093)

I think it goes back to that, you know, our step one of assimilate and really understanding what sort of communications your audience is searching for and how they’re searching for it and where they’re searching for it. Are they using the SEO terms that you think or have you, have you double, doubled down on digging into the terms that you’re looking at, whether you get it from

piece of software or tool or your amazing intern or whatever it is, are you testing and vetting those, you know, with the audience to make sure that they’re resonating? And I think a lot of focus in the past was on engagement. I think we need to take that a step further to resonance. Is it resonating with the right audience? They might engage with it, but it could have been a negative comment or it could have been a negative share. That’s an engagement, right? But is it resonating? So I think

really understanding SEO terms that are working, how they fulfill and align with your brand promise, authenticity and resonance.

John Jantsch (17:41.262)

So when you start.

When you start engaging a client or a client engages you, do you have a process that you go through to try to understand their brand, to try to understand the stories that exist there, to try to understand what they’ve been doing that works? It doesn’t work. you have, have you developed a bit of a, an assessment, I guess, before you ever get started?

Christine Perkett (18:06.973)

Yes, we deliver, we do a full analysis and assessment and then we give them basically what’s a digital booklet that breaks it all down from everything from internal stakeholders and how they communicate the brand to what their external authority looks like, how it aligns with the brand promises they’re putting out there, as well as the engagement and resonance from the audience. So it’s that three step framework, the assembly align activate, but the assembly

is where we really do that analysis and then give them the assessment. And then we say, now that you understand the bigger picture and the deeper ways that your campaigns or marketing or PR has been working, let’s align it with what your goals are. Because a lot of times, know, we have all the right keywords, but you still don’t have any credibility or authority. And I think a lot too now, even LinkedIn, issued…

a report earlier this year that talks about the algorithm favoring individual contributors on LinkedIn versus brand content. So we’re working a lot with executives who are kind of hemming and hind sometimes like, don’t want to do all that stuff on LinkedIn or this channel or that channel. we’re talking about how, again, it comes back to in the world of AI, which is amazing and great and wonderful, but

John Jantsch (19:10.7)

Mm-hmm.

Christine Perkett (19:29.981)

just as important and at the same time rising is that trust and trust comes from the top. Who’s running the company? What is their ethos? What did they say? What kind of brand promises are they talking about? So really trying to align all of those things and help them to understand that each, how each piece works into what they want in step two and step three, which is line and activate.

John Jantsch (19:53.646)

You know, what I always tell people is, go, we work with a lot of smaller organizations and you know, we studied their reviews all the time. and to your point, I challenge you to do this. If you go read 10 reviews on service companies, like home service businesses or something, seven of the reviews that are positive will mention the person that did the work. You know, Rusty fixed our boiler. He was amazing.

Nothing about the company. mean, because Rusty is the company, you know, to that, to that individual. And I think if you, I think you can help make that point when, people start realizing that that’s, you know, that’s the brand, you know, for them.

Christine Perkett (20:32.841)

At end of the day, people buy from people, right? mean, is, and that social media has has played such a big role in that because at least from a consumer side, if you’re doing B2B, it might be a little bit different. If you’re doing B2C, the consumers, they want to know that you care about them, or at least they want to feel that even if they don’t really know it. But it matters to them now. It matters that if they leave a comment on your brand’s campaign or whatever, they, some, someone’s going to respond to them that they’re

John Jantsch (20:35.394)

That’s right.

Christine Perkett (21:02.171)

engagement matters. And I still see that more and more. I think again, with AI, it’s more important than ever that the brand’s messaging and interactions are again, authentic and consistent, even though we use a lot of automation, right? There is a lot of automation. It makes business more, you know, more successful and moves things along faster. But at the same time, you know, we have to

connect with those audience members in an authentic way and in a humane way.

John Jantsch (21:37.41)

Yeah. One of the things I think, you know, a lot of people like, this can allow us to do things faster, maybe even cut head count. I mean, you see a lot of that kind of talk. And I actually think about a healthier way to look at it is this will actually allow us to do more with the same people, but actually give them the ability to be more human, to interact with customers more, you know, because we’ve taken a little, we’ve taken a lot of the so to speak grunt work off of a lot of people’s plates. Yeah.

Christine Perkett (22:02.675)

Right, I agree. it will allow us to do more and to do things better, which is not a bad thing, right? you know, and I think you want to audit the journey of your audience and really understand, you know, at which touch points does AI work and at which touch points do they want to hear from a human or feel like they’re connected with someone?

John Jantsch (22:10.168)

Yeah, yeah, awesome.

Christine Perkett (22:25.843)

I mean, I just tried to call a business the other day and I couldn’t get a human to save my life. And I had a very specific question that the bots were not able to answer. They just kept giving me automated responses and it was maddening. And I think, you know, we see the industry go up and down through this in terms of how much automation is great, how much automation is too much. It’s no different with AI, but we, just have to make sure that we’re understanding when

John Jantsch (22:39.149)

Yeah.

John Jantsch (22:48.408)

Yes.

Christine Perkett (22:54.741)

Again, when AI is good or when automation is good and when a person needs to step in to save that brand relationship and really build that resonance with the audience.

John Jantsch (23:02.862)

Well, you know, what’s hard is because everybody has their own idea of how they want to interact. And so I think the real challenge for businesses is we just have to give people choices. You know, I was on a website the other day and you know, I got kind of through the process of finding out more information and they were like, would you like a video? Would you like somebody to call you? Would you like to send an email? And it was, and I, and I think that’s kind of where we are is people, need to let people make a decision. want.

They want what they want immediately and we need to give them the choice of how they get that. Which I think is sometimes challenging, but that’s why there’s chat bots. Those chat bots work great for some people. Some people just think they’re the worst thing ever created. So I think we have to give people choices.

Christine Perkett (23:39.752)

Yes.

Christine Perkett (23:45.075)

I agree. And that goes back to understanding what they want, right? And taking the time to work that into your marketing communications campaigns, you know, and not doing, don’t set it and forget it. It needs to be an ongoing communication that’s checked in on, you know, every few months. How are you feeling about this? How are you feeling about that? Do you appreciate this? Do you appreciate that? What would you like to see? What are we not doing? You know?

John Jantsch (23:47.522)

Yeah, yeah.

Christine Perkett (24:07.859)

And again, that makes your brand human that you are reaching out to them and that they get to chime in. People love that. That makes them feel important to your company and your brand.

John Jantsch (24:16.556)

Yeah, 100%. Well, Christine, I appreciate you taking a moment to come by and tell us about your new ventures. Is there some place you’d invite people to connect with you and find out more about your work?

Christine Perkett (24:26.393)

They can find everything at thenovamethod.com, including a link to my LinkedIn, which is where I’m most active these days.

John Jantsch (24:33.898)

Awesome. Well, again, appreciate you stopping by. It’s good to see you and hopefully we’ll run into you one of these days out there on the road.

Christine Perkett (24:39.465)

Yes, thank you so much. appreciate it. Nice to be back.

The AI Driven Leader: How to Think Strategically and Make Smarter Decisions with AI

The AI Driven Leader: How to Think Strategically and Make Smarter Decisions with AI written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Listen to the full episode:

Geoff Woods on the DTM PodcastEpisode Summary

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, host John Jantsch welcomes Geoff Woods, founder of AI Leadership and author of the international bestseller The AI Driven Leader: Harnessing AI to Make Faster Decisions. Geoff shares how leaders can use AI not just to automate tasks—but to enhance strategic thinking, speed up decision-making, and escape operational overwhelm.

Through frameworks like CRIT (Context, Role, Interview, Task) and real-world use cases, Geoff reframes AI as a high-level thought partner rather than a basic productivity tool. The discussion explores how leaders can remain relevant, sharpen their judgment, and bring out the best in their teams by embracing AI as a strategic amplifier—not a threat.

About Geoff Woods

Geoff Woods is the founder of AI Leadership and the AI Driven Leadership Collective, where he helps C-suite leaders and growth-minded executives navigate the AI revolution. Formerly Chief Growth Officer at Jindal Steel, Geoff previously built the company behind the bestselling book The ONE Thing. His latest mission is to redefine leadership by helping visionaries use AI to think, decide, and lead more effectively in an uncertain world.

Explore his work, prompts, and leadership resources at AIleadership.com, and find The AI Driven Leader on Amazon and Audible.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • Why AI should be your thought partner—not just a task assistant
  • The CRIT framework for writing powerful prompts
  • How to use AI to ask better questions and challenge assumptions
  • Why focusing on your 20% priorities is the key to value creation
  • How to lead your team through AI-driven cultural change
  • A simple formula for explaining jobs and AI’s impact to your team
  • How decision-making can be faster, deeper, and more strategic with AI
  • Why leaders must “walk the talk” and not delegate AI adoption

Key Moments from the Episode

  • 00:47 – What inspired The AI Driven Leader
  • 02:26 – Why AI is your thought partner, not your replacement
  • 04:55 – Why trying to “clear the plate” is the wrong productivity goal
  • 07:37 – The CRIT framework for writing better prompts
  • 10:08 – Real-world AI use case: saving a company from bankruptcy
  • 12:33 – How to address cultural resistance to AI
  • 13:38 – Why understanding “job = skills × processes” matters now
  • 16:18 – Rethinking how we make business decisions
  • 17:47 – What AI’s role in leadership really looks like
  • 19:47 – Where to start as a leader adopting AI
  • 21:16 – Geoff’s monthly process for reviewing financials with AI
  • 22:15 – How to get Geoff’s strategic prompt library from the book

Explore AI-Driven Leadership

Looking to become a more strategic, AI-powered leader? Pick up The AI Driven Leader and explore Geoff’s prompt frameworks and executive community for top-tier leadership growth.

Visit AIleadership.com

➡ Purchase the book and email your receipt to book@aileadership.com to receive a bonus PDF of 40 strategic AI prompts.

Shoveling Shit: The Messy Truth of Entrepreneurship

Shoveling Shit: The Messy Truth of Entrepreneurship written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Listen to the full episode:

Episode Summary

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, host John Jantsch sits down with Mike and Kass Lazerow—seasoned entrepreneurs, investors, and authors of the bold new book Shoveling Shit: A Love Story. Known for co-founding Golf.com and Buddy Media (acquired by Salesforce for $745 million), the Lazerows bring decades of experience to the mic to discuss the raw, unfiltered reality of entrepreneurship.Their conversation dives into why embracing the mess—failures, pivots, and uncertainty—isn’t a flaw in the entrepreneurial journey, but a defining feature. From building businesses as a married couple to rejecting the myth of work-life balance, this episode explores what it really takes to build a company (and a life) that lasts.

About Mike and Kass Lazerow

Mike Lazerow is a veteran tech entrepreneur and investor, having founded several ventures including Buddy Media, which was acquired by Salesforce for $745 million. He currently co-leads Founders Farm and Velos Partners, investing in and mentoring early-stage companies.

Kass Lazerow is an expert operator and co-founder with a sharp eye for systems, scaling, and execution. She’s worked side-by-side with Mike for over two decades. Together, they’ve supported nearly 100 startups and contributed to over $10 billion in realized gains.

Learn more about their work at shovelingshit.com.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • Why entrepreneurship is more about daily failure than sudden wins
  • The “imbalanced life” framework and why work-life balance is a myth
  • How Mike and Kass divide roles in business and marriage
  • The role of transparency and communication in leading teams
  • Key cheat codes from the book that every entrepreneur should know
  • When to pivot and how to use metrics (and your gut) to decide
  • How embracing uncertainty becomes a competitive advantage
  • What legacy looks like for entrepreneurs focused on impact

Key Moments from the Episode

  • 00:47 – Why “Shoveling Shit” was the right title for their book
  • 02:12 – How their strengths as co-founders (and spouses) complement each other
  • 04:24 – The imbalanced life: choosing obsession over balance
  • 06:06 – Parenting while building businesses: honest trade-offs
  • 08:31 – Mike’s favorite cheat code: ruthless prioritization
  • 09:36 – Kass’s favorite cheat code: transparent leadership
  • 10:45 – The importance of learning to thrive inside uncertainty
  • 13:02 – Lessons from the dot-com crash and losing it all
  • 14:56 – The cost of poor co-founder alignment
  • 16:27 – How investors guide pivots through better questions
  • 18:26 – Revisiting success metrics to know when change is needed
  • 19:31 – What legacy means to Mike and Kass
  • 21:31 – Where to find the book and connect with them online

Explore the Real Story of Entrepreneurship

Want a gritty, heartfelt look into what it takes to build something real? Pick up Shoveling Shit: A Love Story and explore tools, stories, and frameworks to help you succeed in both business and life.

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Rummy Nabob: The Royal Destination for Ultimate Card Gaming

Online gaming in India has undergone a dramatic transformation in the past decade, and one of the brightest stars in this evolution is the classic game of Rummy. While many platforms offer rummy games, few have captured attention quite like Rummy Nabob. With its luxurious feel, rewarding structure, and smooth gameplay, Rummy Nabob is making waves among card game enthusiasts of all levels.

But what makes this platform so appealing? Why are players flocking to it, and how can you get started? Let’s explore everything you need to know about Rummy Nabob and why it might just be your next favorite gaming destination.

What is Rummy Nabob?

Rummy Nabob is a modern online rummy platform offering players an all-in-one card gaming experience with real cash rewards. Known for its royalty-inspired branding and user-friendly interface, Rummy Nabob provides access to a variety of rummy formats, including:

Points Rummy

Pool Rummy

Deals Rummy

Private tables and tournaments

The app is designed to cater to both new and experienced players. Its sleek, minimalistic design is paired with top-tier security features and smooth transaction systems, ensuring users can focus on what matters most—playing and winning.

Whether you’re looking for quick games or competitive tournaments, Rummy Nabob promises a premium gaming atmosphere that blends skill, fun, and the opportunity to win real money.

rummy nabob

Why Players Are Choosing Rummy Nabob

As the rummy market becomes increasingly saturated, it’s platforms like Rummy Nabob that stand out for all the right reasons. Here’s why it’s attracting attention:

1. Welcome Bonuses and Cash Offers
Rummy Nabob entices new players with attractive bonuses. The moment you sign up, you can unlock welcome rewards that can be used to enter games and tournaments. These bonuses help you start your journey without making a major financial commitment.

2. Real Cash Winnings and Quick Withdrawals
One of the biggest attractions of Rummy Nabob is its real-money gaming format. Win a round, collect your rewards, and withdraw earnings with ease. The platform supports quick and secure withdrawals via UPI, Paytm, bank transfers, and other digital payment methods.

3. Clean User Interface
The platform is light on the eyes and smooth to navigate. Whether you’re playing on a high-end smartphone or a mid-range device, the game operates seamlessly. No lags. No bugs. Just pure rummy fun.

4. 24/7 Customer Support
Unlike many other apps, Rummy Nabob has a responsive customer support team available to help with transactions, technical issues, or gameplay questions. Help is just a message away.

5. Fair and Secure Gameplay
The platform uses advanced algorithms and encrypted software to ensure fair play. Every shuffle is random, every game is genuine, and every win is based on pure skill.

Getting Started with Rummy Nabob

Joining Rummy Nabob is a straightforward process. Here’s a quick guide to help you get started:

Step 1: Download the App
Rummy Nabob is usually available through third-party websites or the official site, since real money gaming apps are not typically found on Play Store. Visit the official site or a trusted source to download the APK file.

Step 2: Register Your Account
Use your mobile number to sign up. Most platforms will send an OTP (One-Time Password) to verify your identity and create a secure login.

Step 3: Claim Your Bonus
Once registered, claim your welcome bonus—this often includes a cash bonus or chips that allow you to enter low-stake games immediately.

Step 4: Start Playing
Explore the game formats, select your preferred variant, and start playing. Use the practice tables to get used to the interface if you’re a beginner.

Step 5: Withdraw Your Winnings
After winning a few rounds, head to the wallet section, link your bank account or UPI ID, and withdraw your cash securely.

Tips to Maximize Your Experience

Success in rummy doesn’t depend on luck alone—it’s a game of skill, observation, and timing. Here are some pro tips to help you climb the leaderboard:

Master the Basics First
Learn how sequences and sets work. Know the difference between a pure sequence and an impure one. Understanding the rules will give you a solid foundation.

Play Practice Games Before High-Stake Tables
Use practice tables to hone your strategy and learn from your mistakes. Jumping into cash games too soon can be costly.

Watch Your Opponents
Pay attention to the cards your opponents are picking and discarding. This will help you guess their hands and plan your strategy accordingly.

Avoid Emotional Play
Don’t let a bad hand frustrate you. Take your time, stay calm, and play smart. Rummy is a game of patience and consistency.

Use Bonuses Wisely
Use welcome bonuses and promotional chips to join special tournaments. These often have higher rewards with limited risks.

Conclusion: Step Into the Royal Court of Rummy

In a world full of gaming options, Rummy Nabob rises as a premium destination for anyone looking to play rummy with class, comfort, and competitive rewards. It’s not just about playing a card game—it’s about entering a digital world where every move matters and every win feels royal.

The post Rummy Nabob: The Royal Destination for Ultimate Card Gaming appeared first on holtuncensored.

Rummy All: Your Ultimate Destination for Every Rummy Variant in One Place

If you’re a fan of online card games, chances are you’ve already experienced the thrill of playing rummy. With its perfect mix of strategy, skill, and real-time excitement, it has earned a spot as one of the most loved games across India and beyond. But what if you could access every version of this timeless game—all in one place? Welcome to the world of Rummy All.

More than just a buzzword, Rummy All represents a new wave of digital gaming platforms that unify every major rummy format under one roof. Whether you’re a beginner exploring Points Rummy or a pro battling in 21-card formats, these platforms have something for everyone.

rummy all

What is Rummy All?

Rummy All refers to a full-suite rummy gaming experience offered by select online platforms. Instead of offering a single format, these platforms allow users to access and switch between multiple rummy variants easily. Here’s what a typical Rummy All platform may include:

Points Rummy – Fast-paced games where each point has a cash value.

Pool Rummy – Eliminative format where the last one standing wins the pool.

Deals Rummy – Fixed number of deals; the player with the highest score wins.

13-Card and 21-Card Rummy – Traditional Indian rummy played with one or two decks.

Private Tables – Invite-only tables for friends and family.

Tournaments – Competitive gameplay with entry fees and high cash prizes.

This comprehensive model caters to all types of players and creates a dynamic space where you can explore, compete, and sharpen your skills with every login.

Why Rummy Platforms Are Gaining Popularity

The rise of Rummy All platforms is not just a trend—it’s a reflection of what modern players want: variety, convenience, and engagement. Here’s why these platforms are changing the game:

1. One App, Many Choices
Instead of downloading multiple apps or switching between websites, players get all popular variants in one platform. This not only saves space on your device but also simplifies the user experience.

2. Seamless Switching Between Games
Feel like a quick 13-card match? Or ready for a longer session in 21-card pool rummy? Rummy All lets you switch formats without having to re-register or reload. One wallet, one account, and unlimited access.

3. Better Bonuses and Promotions
Since these platforms offer multiple variants, they often run variant-specific promotions. You may find cashback offers on Points Rummy today and a free-entry tournament in Deals tomorrow. These changing bonuses keep the excitement alive.

4. Skill Development Across Formats
Each rummy variant requires different strategic approaches. By playing all formats, users enhance their overall gameplay, learn new tactics, and increase their chances of winning across the board.

5. Community and Competition
All platforms often host large tournaments that attract players from all over the country. You’ll not only improve by playing against better opponents but also enjoy a sense of community in the gaming world.

How to Get Started with it

Starting your Rummy All journey is simple and quick. Here’s a step-by-step breakdown:

Step 1: Choose a Reputable Platform
Select a licensed and secure platform that clearly offers a variety of rummy variants. Look for platforms with good user reviews, transparent policies, and responsible gaming features.

Step 2: Register and Verify Your Account
Use your mobile number or email address to register. Most platforms offer instant OTP verification and an optional KYC process for withdrawals.

Step 3: Claim Your Welcome Bonus
Many platforms greet new players with attractive welcome bonuses—sometimes as high as ₹51 or more. These bonuses can be used to test the waters and explore different game types.

Step 4: Explore the Lobby
The game lobby usually has tabs or filters for each variant. Pick the one you want to start with. Try low-stake or practice tables first to get used to the gameplay and features.

Step 5: Play, Learn, and Earn
As you grow in confidence and skill, move to real-money tables, join tournaments, and compete for bigger rewards. Always play with discipline and stick to your strategy.

Smart Tips for Winning Across All Variants

The beauty of playing on platform is that you develop a versatile skill set. Here are a few pro tips to help you succeed:

Understand Each Format Thoroughly
The strategy that works in Pool won’t necessarily work in Deals Rummy. Study the rules and payout structures before you play.

Start Small
Begin with low-entry tables to minimize losses while you’re still learning.

Observe Opponents
Reading the discards and understanding patterns is key to smart gameplay.

Avoid Emotional Decisions
Stay calm even when the cards aren’t in your favor. Remember, it is a game of patience.

Use Bonuses Wisely
Many platforms allow you to use bonuses as entry fees. Take full advantage of them, especially for tournaments.

Final Thoughts: Embrace the Full Experience

The online gaming landscape is evolving, and Rummy is leading the way with its inclusive, flexible, and rewarding model. It’s perfect for anyone who doesn’t want to be boxed into a single format and loves variety in their gameplay.

Whether you’re a casual gamer looking for some evening entertainment or a competitive player chasing high-stakes tournaments, it offers a tailored experience just for you. It’s a complete package—easy to access, fun to play, and rewarding to master.

The post Rummy All: Your Ultimate Destination for Every Rummy Variant in One Place appeared first on holtuncensored.

Rummy All Apps: A One-Stop Guide to Every Variant of the Game You Love

In the vibrant world of online gaming, few card games have managed to retain their charm across generations like Rummy. Whether played at family gatherings or on digital platforms, Rummy continues to win hearts with its perfect mix of skill, strategy, and excitement. As the digital wave transforms how we play, one term is starting to gain traction—Rummy All Apps.

But what exactly does Rummy All mean? And why should gaming enthusiasts pay attention to this concept? In this blog, we’ll dive into the universe of Rummy All, covering everything from its meaning to why it matters, and how it’s shaping the online card gaming experience today.

Rummy All Apps

What Does Rummy All Mean?

Rummy All refers to the collective offering of all rummy variants in a single online platform or application. Instead of limiting players to just one version of the game, platforms that promote “Rummy All” provide a comprehensive experience with multiple formats such as:

Points Rummy

Pool Rummy (101 and 201)

Deals Rummy

Indian Rummy (13-Card & 21-Card)

Gin Rummy

Kalooki Rummy

Oklahoma Rummy

This concept caters to both beginners and advanced players by offering variety, flexibility, and engagement all under one digital roof. Think of it as a complete rummy universe, where every player finds their comfort zone—or their next challenge.

Why Rummy is a Game-Changer for Online Gamers

Today’s gaming audience expects more than just accessibility; they want depth, diversity, and user-centric features. The Rummy All approach delivers precisely that. Here’s why it’s rapidly becoming the go-to choice for rummy enthusiasts:

1. Variety Keeps the Fun Alive
Repetition can be a buzzkill. With Rummy All, players don’t have to stick to a single variant. They can switch modes based on mood, experience level, or strategic preference. This versatility adds a fresh dimension to online gameplay and makes the experience more immersive.

2. Skill Enhancement Across Formats
Each rummy variant comes with its unique rules and winning strategies. Playing multiple formats on the same platform challenges your brain, sharpens decision-making skills, and improves overall mastery of the game. It’s not just about luck—real skill gets rewarded.

3. Better Rewards and Promotions
Many Rummy All platforms offer distinct bonuses, referral rewards, and tournament entries depending on the format you’re playing. From welcome bonuses to cashback offers, players are constantly incentivized to explore different variants.

4. Inclusive for Every Player Type
Whether you’re a casual player looking to pass the time or a competitive gamer eyeing big tournament wins, Rummy All platforms have something for everyone. Low-stake tables, practice rounds, high-roller tournaments—you name it, it’s there.

5. One Wallet, One Account, Unlimited Options
Rummy All streamlines your gaming life. One account allows you to access every format, making it easy to manage your balance, track your progress, and switch games effortlessly.

How to Get Started with Rummy All Apps Platforms

Getting started is easier than ever. Here’s a simple step-by-step process for those new to the Rummy All experience:

Step 1: Choose a Trusted Platform
Select a reliable and licensed rummy platform that explicitly offers multiple variants. Read reviews, check for certifications, and explore user testimonials.

Step 2: Register and Verify
Sign up using a valid mobile number or email. Complete the KYC process if necessary to unlock full access and withdrawal options.

Step 3: Claim Your Welcome Bonus
Most platforms offer a welcome bonus, like a ₹51 or ₹100 credit, upon joining. Use this to test the waters before depositing your own money.

Step 4: Explore All Variants
Don’t limit yourself to just one format. Try different variants to find your favorite or expand your skill set.

Step 5: Play Smart and Track Progress
Use in-app features to analyze game history, win-loss ratios, and performance across formats. This will help improve your strategy over time.

Promoting Responsible Gaming While You Enjoy Rummy All Apps

It’s easy to get lost in the thrill of the game, but responsible gaming should always be a priority. Here are a few practices to follow:

Set daily or weekly deposit limits.

Never play under stress or fatigue.

Treat the game as entertainment—not income.

Take regular breaks and monitor screen time.

Reach out to customer support if you suspect signs of compulsive behavior.

Remember, the joy of Rummy lies in its gameplay, not just the stakes. Play for the challenge, the learning, and the fun.

Final Thoughts: Why Rummy All Is the Future of Online Card Games

The Rummy All experience represents the next step in digital gaming evolution. It offers more than just convenience—it delivers a complete package filled with variety, strategic learning, user rewards, and flexibility. Whether you’re a beginner curious about the game or a veteran looking for variety, this is your cue to dive in.

The post Rummy All Apps: A One-Stop Guide to Every Variant of the Game You Love appeared first on holtuncensored.

Exploring the Rummy 51 Bonus: A Smart Way to Start Your Online Gaming Journey

In today’s fast-paced digital world, online games have transformed the entertainment landscape, offering not just fun and excitement but also great incentives. Among the most beloved card games in India, Rummy stands out for its blend of strategy and skill. For beginners and seasoned players alike, one exciting offer catching widespread attention is the Rummy 51 Bonus. But what exactly is this bonus, and how can you make the most of it?

What is the Rummy 51 Bonus?

The Rummy 51 Bonus is a promotional offer provided by various online rummy platforms to attract new users. Simply put, it means players receive ₹51 for free as a welcome bonus when they register on a participating rummy app or website. This bonus can be used to explore different game modes, join practice tables, or even enter low-stake cash games.

Unlike other promotions that come with hidden terms or steep wagering requirements, the Rummy 51 Bonus is generally straightforward. It’s designed to give players a real feel of the gaming environment without requiring an initial deposit.

Rummy Bonus

Benefits of Claiming the Rummy 51 Bonus

The growing popularity of the Rummy 51 Bonus isn’t without reason. Here’s why players are opting for platforms that offer it:

1. Risk-Free Introduction
If you’re new to online rummy, this bonus is your golden ticket. You don’t need to commit your own money immediately, which takes away the stress of losing. It’s an excellent way to practice and learn the ropes without financial risk.

2. Boosts Confidence
Using the bonus to play a few rounds helps build familiarity with the platform’s interface, gameplay, and rules. It empowers players with confidence and experience before entering higher-stakes games.

3. Gateway to Bigger Rewards
Though the bonus itself is small, many players have used it as a stepping stone to win more. With smart play and a bit of luck, ₹51 can be turned into significantly larger amounts through tournaments and cash tables.

4. Promotional Offers and Loyalty Programs
Platforms that offer a Rummy 51 Bonus often have generous loyalty programs and additional bonuses. Once you start playing, you might receive cashback, referral bonuses, or participation incentives that further enrich the experience.

How to Use the Rummy 51 Bonus Wisely

While the bonus is a great starting point, maximizing its potential requires a bit of strategy. Here are some tips to make the most of your ₹51 bonus:

Choose the Right Platform
Ensure the rummy platform you register with is licensed, secure, and has a good reputation. Always read the terms and conditions of the bonus to understand any withdrawal or usage limitations.

Start with Practice Games
Even if the bonus allows you to join cash games directly, it’s wise to first play in practice mode. This helps you refine your skills and avoid rookie mistakes that might cost you.

Understand the Rules Thoroughly
Rummy is a game of skill, and each platform may have slight variations in rules. Before placing your bets, be fully familiar with sequences, sets, joker usage, and points calculation.

Participate in Low-Entry Tournaments
Look for beginner-friendly tournaments where you can enter using the bonus amount. These often have better odds for new players and can multiply your returns.

Track Your Progress
Many players lose track of their spending and winnings. Use built-in analytics or a simple spreadsheet to keep an eye on your growth, helping you make informed decisions.

Is the Rummy Worth It?

The short answer is yes, provided you use it wisely. The Rummy 51 Bonus is more than just a marketing gimmick—it’s an opportunity. For players who are willing to learn and play strategically, this small bonus can unlock big potential.

Many success stories in the online rummy community began with a modest bonus like this one. It offers value to the platform by increasing user engagement and benefits the player by reducing initial financial barriers.

Moreover, as platforms continue to compete for user attention, such bonuses may soon come with enhanced value—like cashback, free tournaments, or skill workshops for new users.

Final Thoughts

The Rummy 51 Bonus represents a smart, low-risk gateway into the world of online rummy. It’s ideal for anyone who wants to explore this thrilling card game without the pressure of an upfront investment. Whether you’re playing for fun or aiming for higher winnings, starting your journey with a bonus is both strategic and rewarding.

So, if you’re curious about online rummy and want to test your skills, go ahead and claim your Rummy 51 Bonus today. Just remember—play responsibly, understand the game, and most importantly, enjoy the experience.

The post Exploring the Rummy 51 Bonus: A Smart Way to Start Your Online Gaming Journey appeared first on holtuncensored.

Unlocking the Rummy 51 Bonus: Your Free Ticket to Real Cash Gaming

In the fast-growing world of online gaming, Rummy holds a special place in the hearts of millions of players. Combining skill, strategy, and a dash of luck, this timeless card game has evolved into a thrilling digital experience. And one of the most enticing ways to dive into it is through the Rummy 51 Bonus—a no-deposit reward that gives you ₹51 just for signing up.

But what exactly is this bonus, and how can it benefit both beginners and seasoned players? Let’s explore how the Rummy 51 Bonus works, why it’s becoming increasingly popular, and how you can leverage it to kickstart your online rummy journey.

What is the Rummy 51 Bonus?

The Rummy 51 Bonus is a promotional offer available on select online rummy platforms. It provides new users ₹51 for free upon registration—without requiring any initial deposit. This bonus can be used to enter real-money games, explore different rummy formats, and even compete in tournaments.

It’s a perfect example of a welcome gift that doesn’t just say “thank you for joining,” but also allows you to experience the thrill of rummy with zero financial risk. While the amount may appear modest, skilled players often use it as a stepping stone to build their bankroll.

Rummy 51 Bonus

Why Rummy is a Game-Changer

The Rummy 51 Bonus isn’t just another marketing gimmick. For smart players, it offers real value, especially when approached with strategy and confidence. Here’s why this bonus is worth grabbing:

1. No Investment Required
This is perhaps the biggest advantage. You don’t have to invest your money to start playing. Once registered, your ₹51 is instantly credited, allowing you to try out the platform, understand the game mechanics, and start playing.

2. Ideal for Beginners
If you’re new to rummy or online card games in general, the 51 bonus is the perfect training tool. You can explore the interface, learn game rules, and participate in low-entry games—without any pressure of losing actual money.

3. Gateway to Bigger Winnings
Many players have turned a simple ₹51 bonus into hundreds or even thousands with smart gameplay. Rummy is a skill-based game, and with the right moves, you can grow your winnings while learning and having fun.

4. Risk-Free Practice
Practicing with real players is the best way to get good at rummy. This bonus lets you do exactly that—risk-free. You play against real opponents in real scenarios, sharpening your instincts and strategic thinking.

5. Test the Platform’s Credibility
Before you decide to deposit your hard-earned money, use the ₹51 bonus to test the app’s fairness, withdrawal systems, and customer support. It’s like a free trial before committing to the full experience.

How to Claim and Use the Rummy 51 Bonus

Getting started with the Rummy 51 Bonus is incredibly simple. Here’s how you can claim and make the most of this opportunity:

Step 1: Choose a Verified Rummy Platform
Start by selecting a reputed platform that offers a ₹51 welcome bonus. Look for positive user reviews, SSL encryption, RNG certification, and customer support availability.

Step 2: Complete the Signup Process
Register using your mobile number or email. Most platforms will send an OTP for verification. Once verified, the bonus is instantly credited to your gaming wallet.

Step 3: Explore Available Game Modes
Use the bonus to play practice rounds, points rummy, or low-entry cash games. Avoid going all-in—pace yourself and observe how the platform works.

Step 4: Sharpen Your Skills
Play regularly to improve your game sense. Read rummy guides, watch tutorials, or study winning strategies from experienced players.

Step 5: Upgrade to Cash Deposits
Once you’re confident, you can deposit real money to enter larger tournaments. But many players prefer to first grow their bonus into actual winnings—a smart approach for strategic users.

Tips to Turn Your Rummy Bonus into Profit

While ₹51 may not sound like a fortune, clever players have proven otherwise. Here’s how to stretch every rupee of your bonus:

Start with low-stake tables to maximize playing time.

Avoid rushing—use your turns wisely and study opponents.

Track your progress using platform analytics if available.

Know when to drop—a smart drop can save you points and cash.

Join referral or promotional programs to get additional bonus chips.

Treat your ₹51 bonus like a seed—you need patience, skill, and strategy to grow it into something meaningful.

Is the Rummy 51 Bonus Right for You?

Absolutely—if you enjoy games that require skill and reward strategic thinking. The Rummy 51 Bonus is a zero-risk, high-value entry point into the online rummy space. Whether you’re just curious or planning to become a serious competitor, this offer gives you a chance to explore the game without any upfront financial burden.

Moreover, it helps you make informed decisions about the platform—how it handles gameplay, player fairness, and withdrawals. Think of it as a free trial with potential earnings.

Final Thoughts

The world of online rummy is full of excitement, strategy, and real money opportunities—and the Rummy 51 Bonus is your first-class ticket to that experience. For beginners, it’s a practical way to start learning. For seasoned players, it’s an extra boost. And for everyone, it’s a reminder that the best things in life sometimes come free.

The post Unlocking the Rummy 51 Bonus: Your Free Ticket to Real Cash Gaming appeared first on holtuncensored.

AI Ethics in Marketing: Why Strategy and Responsibility Must Go Hand in Hand

AI Ethics in Marketing: Why Strategy and Responsibility Must Go Hand in Hand written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Listen to the episode:

Episode Summary

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, host John Jantsch welcomes Paul Chaney, a veteran digital marketer and publisher of the AI Marketing Ethics Digest. As artificial intelligence becomes central to marketing, Paul makes the case for why ethics and strategy must lead the conversation—not just the latest tools.

The discussion explores how unchecked AI use can damage brand trust, create internal chaos, and result in missed opportunities. From AI techno-stress to the need for governance and transparency, this episode offers a timely blueprint for adopting AI responsibly in modern marketing.

About Paul Chaney

Paul Chaney is a B2B writer, content strategist, and the founder of the AI Marketing Ethics Digest on Substack. With a long-standing career in digital marketing, Paul brings a sharp perspective on how businesses can balance the excitement of new AI tools with responsible, customer-focused ethics. His consulting and writing work is rooted in helping brands build trust and clarity in the age of automation.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • Why ethical frameworks are critical in AI-powered marketing
  • The risks of “shadow AI” and how to govern internal use
  • How AI techno-stress is affecting employees and teams
  • Why strategy should always come before adopting new tech
  • How a “boxed” AI system could reduce chaos and stress in organizations

Key Moments from the Episode

  • 00:40 – Why Paul launched the AI Marketing Ethics Digest
  • 02:56 – Responsible AI from the customer’s perspective, not just compliance
  • 04:06 – Transparency, bias, and brand reputation in AI output
  • 05:33 – Strategy before technology: avoiding “bad work faster”
  • 06:59 – What “shadow AI” is and how it can harm organizations
  • 08:30 – The need for usage policies and monitoring internal AI use
  • 10:54 – The Generative AI Business Adoption Hierarchy explained
  • 12:51 – Embedding AI into business culture with governance and clarity
  • 15:56 – What is AI techno-stress and how is it impacting workforces?
  • 18:24 – Lack of training is a hidden ethical risk for employee well-being
  • 19:55 – A real-world agency navigating generational divides in AI adoption
  • 21:06 – Why many business owners may give up on AI—and what that means for consultants
  • 22:15 – Where to follow Paul and subscribe to his work

Explore Responsible AI in Marketing

Interested in learning how to use AI ethically and strategically in your marketing practice? Start by subscribing to Paul’s newsletter and check out his content strategy services.

Subscribe to the AI Marketing Ethics Digest

Visit Prescriptive Writing for B2B Services

Tags:

AI in marketing, marketing ethics, digital strategy, Paul Chaney, marketing podcast, AI governance, AI adoption, shadow AI, Duct Tape Marketing