Category Archives: Air

Auto Added by WPeMatico

Helping Entrepreneurs Get To Where They Want To Go Faster

Helping Entrepreneurs Get To Where They Want To Go Faster written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Marketing Podcast with Carolyn Rodz

Carolyn Rodz, guest on the Duct Tape Marketing PodcastIn this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interview Carolyn Rodz. Carolyn serves as the co-founder and CEO of Hello Alice. Hello Alice is a free, data-driven, and multichannel platform helping small business owners on their entrepreneurial journey by providing access to relevant funding networks and technical assistance tools while increasing owner success rates. Elizabeth Gore and Carolyn launched Hello Alice with the goal of helping entrepreneurs thrive with access to funding, resources, mentorship, and more.

Key Takeaway:

As a business owner, how do you find the right resources at the right time? Carolyn Rodz co-founded a free digital platform that connects business owners with the resources they need to launch and grow. In this episode, we talk about how HelloAlice helps small business owners on their entrepreneurial journey by providing access to relevant funding networks and technical assistance tools along the way.

Questions I ask Carolyn Rodz:

  • [1:30] Could you give us the background of how this Hello Alice came to be?
  • [2:20] Why the Lewis Carroll reference?
  • [2:59] What’s your history like and what brought you to decide that you were going to do this?
  • [4:30] Did you have an aha moment where you knew where you needed to start or how was the business born?
  • [5:13] What’s been the biggest challenge?
  • [6:09] Do you refer to yourself as a marketplace almost or more of a membership organization?
  • [7:03] What’s been the most rewarding thing to date?
  • [8:31] Can you describe what the typical member looks like?
  • [9:19] Is there an equity emphasis?
  • [11:06] How do networking and peer-to-peer connection play out in what is kind of a technology platform?
  • [12:50] So how does the process work for businesses who want to join Hello Alice?
  • [13:37] How does Hello Alice make money if joining is free?
  • [14:39] Is there an art to getting a grant?
  • [16:24] What type of networking have you found the community responds to?
  • [18:16] Why do members stick around if they choose to stick around?
  • [19:40] Have you seen a maturity of a business through this?
  • [20:44] Where can people learn more about Hello Alice and connect with you?

More About Carolyn Rodz:

Take The Marketing Assessment:

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

John Jantsch (00:00): This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by Marketing Against the Grain, hosted by Kip Bodner. And Keion Flanigan is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Look, if you wanna know what’s happening now in marketing, what’s ahead and how you can stay ahead of the game, this is the podcast for you, host and HubSpot’s, CMO and SVP of Marketing. Kip and Keion share their marketing expertise unfiltered in the details, the truth, and like nobody tells it. In fact, a recent episode, they titled Half Baked Marketing Ideas They Got Down In the Weeds, talked about some outside of the box campaigns with real businesses. Listen to marketing, its grain wherever you get your podcasts.

(00:55): Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch and my guest today is Carolyn Rods. She serves as the co-founder and CEO of Hello Alice. Hello, Alice is a free data driven and multi-channel platform helping small business owners on their entrepreneurial journey by providing access to relevant funding networks and technical assistance tools while creating owner success rate, increasing owner success rates would be a better way to say that. So Caroline, welcome to the show.

Carolyn Rodz (01:26): Thank you. Thanks John for having me. One of my favorite topics to talk about.

John Jantsch (01:31): All right, well, so I guess let’s just start with the history of Hello Alice, and I know you hit a pretty important milestone that you might want to share as well in terms of membership. So give us just the background of how this, uh, Hello Alice came to be.

Carolyn Rodz (01:45): Yeah, hello. Alice started back in 2017. I always say is the answer to what I wish I would’ve had when I started my very first company as a small business owners many years ago. But the plan was really how do we help connect business owners to the right resources at the right time based on where they are in their journey, all based on who they are as a person and the type of company that they’re trying to grow. And we’ve continued to do that ever since, helping to bridge them through the capital that they need along that journey, and then surfacing all of the right opportunities and resources and learning experiences to help them deploy that capital in meaningful

John Jantsch (02:20): Ways. And why the Lewis Carroll reference?

Carolyn Rodz (02:22): Yeah, when Elizabeth and I were starting this company, we started it with young kids in our homes. We were actually living together. I moved my family in with hers. We were out in, in the North Bay as we built the first iteration. And we happened to be reading the story of Alice in Wonderland to our kids. And we realized there were so many similarities between this entrepreneurial journey of all these unknowns. And sometimes you feel big and sometimes you feel small. And it’s this crazy journey for everybody. And thus the Hello Alice.

John Jantsch (02:51): It’s funny, the, you know, my company is called Duct Tape Marketing. And it’s similar sort of metaphor, you know, like what it’s like to be, you know, to start a business. What’s your history like? What brought you to deciding I’m gonna do this thing?

Carolyn Rodz (03:04): So I started out actually my career as an investment banker and jumped into entrepreneurship quite blindly. I had been exposed to it a lot as a child. My grandparents ran a very large cookie and bread factory in Bolivia. My dad was an entrepreneur and I started my first company but really struggled with cash flow management. I struggled with inventory management. There were so many pieces of the actual business side that I just didn’t understand. And I ultimately ended up closing that company. It was in the retail space. After a couple of years, I then started a second business in the digital media space. And I grew that with everything that I had learned from that failed experience in really leveraging my network the second time around and asking for a ton of help along the way where I knew, I knew, at least at that point, I knew what I didn’t know.

(03:54): And I grew that company slowly and steadily over about seven years and then sold it. And it was really at that point I started mentoring and supporting others. I then met Elizabeth along that journey and she was coming from this background with the working for the United Nations, leading their global entrepreneur council. She had this big macro view of what entrepreneurship really could do for a global economy. I saw a very micro view as an individual business owner, what the impact would be. And when we brought that together, we just saw this huge opportunity to help both individuals and to help the world at large.

John Jantsch (04:30): Yeah, I mean, did you have that like idea, uh, aha, you know, it’s like this is what we need to start, Or was it really more the mentoring turned into somebody asking for help and you figured out how to get them that help and the business was born or

Carolyn Rodz (04:43): Definitely the latter. And I think often the greatest businesses start when you just keep seeing this need like glaring in front of you. I had just had my first child, I was ready to take a break. I’d sold my business like I was burnt out on entrepreneurship to be honest. I was ready to take it slow and slowly instead it just, it kept coming up and it kept coming up and I kept seeing this need. Um, and then, you know, I, once I met Elizabeth that was like, All right, this is, let’s do this. Like we can’t not because nobody else is doing it,

John Jantsch (05:13): So. So what’s been the biggest challenge so far?

Carolyn Rodz (05:17): It’s changed a little bit along the way, but I would say early days it was certainly access to capital, like many of the business owners that we support. And probably not surprising to you since you talked to a lot of entrepreneurs raising money was really difficult. We are not a cookie cutter tech company. We never have. We’ve been this blend of community and a technology platform and we’d often get bucketed very much into one or the other. And so it was really hard for us to get traction. We had some people that just bet on us early on. Now I would say it’s really, you know, as our team has grown, it’s just making sure that we’re focusing on the right thing. We have, this is a rare business and that there’s a lot of opportunity thrown at us and a lot of things that we can be doing. But always really challenging ourselves to stay as focused as possible so we can keep a growing team all moving in sync in the right direction.

John Jantsch (06:09): I mean, do you think of yourself or refer to yourself as a marketplace almost or more of a membership organization?

Carolyn Rodz (06:16): You know, I would say at our core, we’re community, A community above all else. We always say if we can’t, you know, keep that real sort of human to human component, we’ve sort of, we’ll, we’ll lose our way at the end of the day. We have to have trust. I think what’s made our company so strong is this fierce loyalty. However, it is all tech driven, right? And so it’s how do we kind of layer technology to support the community in meaningful ways? And in that sense, it is a marketplace, right? We have, we’re a place where you can come to find the right loan for your business, you can get the best credit card for your company. So there IT solutions and discounts and grant opportunities. So there certainly is that marketplace component. Yeah. But all of it is really driven by having a solid understanding of who are we actually serving as an individual, not as a conglomerate.

John Jantsch (07:04): So I asked you the challenging part, what’s been, now, you know, I mentioned a milestone of over a million. Do you call ’em members or

Carolyn Rodz (07:11): We do, yes. Okay. We were refer of ’em as owners, but we never say users on our purpose. So we remember like the big journey everybody’s on.

John Jantsch (07:18): All right, so million owners. So what’s been the most rewarding to date?

Carolyn Rodz (07:21): Oh my gosh. You know, I think this is the coolest job in the world because the second I feel like I’m starting to get worn down or anybody on our team and we’ve been going like, we’ve been working so hard, it’s like at that moment we hear these incredibly inspiring stories. But you know, one comes to mind of Jessica’s balding, the owner of Harlem Chocolate Factory, who has gotten over $120,000 of grants from our platform. She’s gone through, you know, learning and educational experiences really. Like there’s these businesses that we just helped get through Covid that would’ve never otherwise, you know, made it necessarily, and not because of like, you know, we were some like magic band-aid for them. But just surfacing the opportunity, opening the door for them to put the work in to go get the solutions that they needed. That to me is the most rewarding part. Cause I’ve been there, I’ve closed my doors on a company and I know how incredibly exhausting it is when you’re in, you know, right at that precipice of are you gonna make it or not? And to know that we were, the small part of helping somebody make it is, it’s like a very emotional connection for me with our community.

John Jantsch (08:31): I imagine there’s a little celebrating that goes on when people hit some sort of milestone in part of the community. What’s a typical member owner, typical member owner? I mean, is it a startup or is it somebody trying to scale or is it just everything And

Carolyn Rodz (08:45): We’re very traditional main street small businesses. Yeah. So everything from a retail operation to, you know, a dry cleaner on the corner to a consultant, it’s really typically most of our business owners are less than 10 employees. Mm. They’re, we always say small and growing businesses. They’re, they’re businesses with very big goals and ambition. And there are business owners that work incredibly hard every day, but they’re in the early stages of growth and really need that guidance to unblock those big initial hurdles.

John Jantsch (09:19): Is there, uh, an equity emphasis, I mean, obviously give people access to capital that maybe traditionally are just not getting access to capital?

Carolyn Rodz (09:29): Yes. We have a lot of really cool initiatives in place. We are working on a, an equitable access to credit fund where we’re starting to unlock capital, really utilizing grant funds. We’ve deployed over 20 million in grants over the years where we’re starting to utilize those grant funds now to actually de-risk some credit for these owners so we can start to get them into sort of mainstream opportunity. Our goal is always how do we bridge that gap from their first credit card, their first loan that they need to walk into a bank and have the power of choice that many entrepreneurs have the luxury of starting with. But the reality is the majority don’t. That’s the piece that we focus on and we’ve gotten to partner with banks and corporations and incredible companies and foundations that are doing great work out there to be that bridge between the resources they have and the business owner needs.

John Jantsch (10:18): And a word from a sponsor, Hey look, if you’re still using Dropbox or Google Drive to store your images and videos, listen up. Well those are fine for storing docs and sheets. They’re not so great for marketers needing to store organized share and collaborate on visual assets Air’s Intuitive UI is purpose-built for visual assets, find files faster with visual search and AI auto tagging, share files, securely fast track projects and feedback teams at Google Sweet Green, the infatuation in more are saving 10 plus hours a week using Air. Air is the leading platform for marketing teams to manage and automate their creative operations. Learn more at Air.inc/ducttape. That’s air.inc/ducttape.

(11:06): So we’ve talked a little bit about the funding aspect of the loans, the grants, but there’s also a networking like peer-to-peer connecting, you know, teaching knowledge. I mean, how does that aspect play out in, in what is kind of a technology platform?

Carolyn Rodz (11:20): Yes. So we have a bunch of learning opportunities for us it’s always, capital is wonderful and it’s a piece of the solution, right? But the reality is most business owners aren’t even ready for that. You know, they’re not ready for venture capital, they’re not necessarily ready for that first loan. They’re looking for that initial traction to open the door. So we have a lot of programs. We have our Boost Camp experience that’s coming up in January as an example, which is a mini accelerator. It’s a three day accelerator that brings owners through how do you grow revenues. And it takes them through a series of automated guides that are very dynamic. We bring in incredible speakers that, that come and share their expertise and then they’re carried through this online experience that continues into perpetuity. So it helps ’em to build their plan and build that foundation, but then they go through tracks inside the hello s platform that are carrying through the details each of our how-to guides.

(12:09): It’s very dynamic. So we’re asking questions along the way as that business owner answers that we’re learning more about them and putting them on a path that’s really tailored to their needs. So the solution that you’ll get recommended for you in your business is very different than the solution that I’m gonna see for my business at the end of the day. And everything that we’re pushing to those owners is really tailored to their own, their own unique needs. Cuz as you know, all of our journeys are so different and to put a cookie cutter approach just doesn’t work. But we’re also learning what’s working for entrepreneurs and for certain segments of entrepreneurs and how do we help guide people on those paths that are actually opening doors and actually showing increased revenues and actually showing improved opportunities for funding.

John Jantsch (12:50): So how does the process work? I mean, how does a business come to you and say, Oh, I listen, I listen to John’s podcast and I wanna join Hello s how’s that happen?

Carolyn Rodz (12:58): Yeah, it’s totally free. So you just go to hello s.com, you can sign up for free, you’ll go through just a really quick onboarding experience where we’ll ask some basic questions about your business and from there you’ll get recommended opportunities that’ll help your company grow. So it’s everything from a grant that you should be aware of and we really take into account who you are as a business owner. If you’re a black female business owner working in manufacturing, here’s the right recommendations for you. If you are, you know, a veteran, you know, working in tech in Arizona, you’re gonna get different recommendations based on where you live, based on the industry that you’re working on.

John Jantsch (13:38): So you said the mo the the adjoining aspect is free. So the sort of the logical entrepreneurial question for me is what is the hell, How do we make money? Business model

Carolyn Rodz (13:48): , people ask us it all the time. We make money in a variety of ways. One is through affiliate partnerships. So as business owners are making purchases along the way, we are receiving commissions off of those. We also have premium experiences. So there are certain paid experiences. Uh, we work to get the best pricing on all of those if we can. We certainly also for credit card holders an example, there’s benefits. If they have a hell elses credit card, there’s opportunity for us as well. But at the end of the day, it really is, we’re always looking for ways of how do we help business owners and make money off of the things that they’re doing anyway. We don’t wanna put additional spend into their pocket. Everybody’s so bootstrapped and so tight on dollars. All of our monetization comes from our, the business partners, a corporate and enterprise partners that we work with. So we’re never taking money out of the hands of business owners.

John Jantsch (14:40): Grants are obvi, as you’ve mentioned, a big part of what you help people acquire. I, is there an art to to getting a grant or is it really just right place, right time, right need? Or is it a more competitive , you know, type of thing that, that you really have to get good at?

Carolyn Rodz (14:56): It is competitive and there’s certainly, I would say both art and science to it. One is just actually filling out your application fully. You’d be surprised how many people submit a grant and don’t answer all the questions and actually taking time and thoughtfulness. I think that’s a very simple thing that will really set your grant application apart. We actually have guides on Hello Alices, on how to go through the grants process, how to optimize your grant application. And then we also run workshops really helping people figure it out. And I’ll say for our own company, I built both Hello Alice in previous companies with grant funding and we’ve applied for, I mean, hundreds of grants over the years and it’s, it is a numbers game, so it’s not, it’s unlikely the first or second or even probably 10th grant application will result in money. But we try to keep the applications as streamlined as possible, as simple as possible for people so that they’re not spending a a ton of time on it. Most can be filled out in 20 minutes or less. And then also you can reutilize a lot of the data fields. So if you filled it out once for the next grant, we’re not gonna ask you the same questions again. So to save people time, we know time and money are various scarce resources for entrepreneurs.

John Jantsch (16:03): So I’m seeing like the bot, you know, to help the application is like the Cheshire cat or something.

Carolyn Rodz (16:09): We have our rabbits, so you’ll see our white rabbit a lot throughout the platform, but the white rabbit is really the guide for the entrepreneur. So where you see that rabbit pop up, it’s sort of pulling those entrepreneurs along the right path and the recommended path for them.

John Jantsch (16:24): So, So what type of network, our backend

Carolyn Rodz (16:27): Platform we

John Jantsch (16:27): Do, you know, in my experience that’s one it’s not necessarily the most valuable is Definitly the thing that people enjoy the most that are kind of in, in this, you know, struggling together. So what type of networking do you have you found the community response to?

Carolyn Rodz (16:42): Well we do lots of different affinity groups that we’re pulling together, right? So one of the biggest roles for us at Hello Alice, how do we convene business owners together in ways that are meaningful to them? And sometimes that is who are you as a person? So we, for Hispanic Heritage Month brought together a group of Hispanic entrepreneurs. We also will bring people together by geography. And so we just had an event in Atlanta, for example, with in partnership with MasterCard that brought owners together. But we do a ton online and it really is, I think those smaller groups are so critical. We also leverage ecosystem partners. So we work with, you know, the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce. We work with the US Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. We work with a ton of organizations to, to push owners out and say, look, this is a network on the ground that’s very helpful for you. And those have become great partners for us. They are constantly referring people over to Hello Alice. We’re always referring people out to them. And we’ve built a really incredible ecosystem of organizations like DI Inc. And I mean there’s so many, there’s thousands of them. Yeah, they’re so critical to the ecosystem. I think we are a technology and we can certainly help expose the right resources for people, but there is so much that we cannot do as a technology that will never replace that human human touch.

John Jantsch (17:57): So, and, and this would only come sort of anecdotally from you talking to members I suppose, but do first off people probably join for a very specific reasons. I mean typically probably drawn for the capital is that

Carolyn Rodz (18:11): Yes, capital is the number one draw in for sure. Yes.

John Jantsch (18:16): Why do they stick around if they choose to stick around?

Carolyn Rodz (18:19): They stick around often I would say a combination of guidance. It’s just where do I go next? What do I need to be focusing on? And then a specific solution. So we work again with all of our corporate partners, say, Okay, we’re gonna bring you, you know, we, you know, we need a payroll service for your business. We’re gonna, we’re gonna filter down what are actually the really viable and good ones for your company. But also how do we take the volume of 1.2 million business owners on our platform and go leverage the very best discount for your business to help you make that purchase for us. We make recommendations, many recommendations, Aren a platform that we don’t get any affiliate. Yeah. Fee from. Our big belief is that if you’re with us over the journey, that there’s gonna be some that are beneficial to us, mutually beneficial, there are gonna be some that are not, but at the end of the day, we have to have the trust of the business owners or none of us win.

(19:12): Like we are all very aligned around how do we help these business owners grow and succeed. It’s what we need as a business. It’s what the business owner needs for their own company. It’s what the corporate ecosystem needs. They need those businesses to grow. The foundations we work with need those businesses to grow. So there’s such alignment that we get to be, you know, we have the luxury, I will say, of being a very mission driven company. At the end of the day, every decision we would make, we say, is this best for the business owner or not? And if it’s not, we won’t do it.

John Jantsch (19:41): You’ve only got five short years under your belt. But have you worked with somebody that came to you maybe in total startup mode, needed some money to get going and now you know, you’ve connected with them and they have 50 employees or something. I mean that, have you seen a maturity of a business?

Carolyn Rodz (19:58): Yes, we had, one of my favorite stories is Sia Scotch a company. It was one of the first female owned scotch company owned by a Cuban American. And what was so cool is that she was on Hello Alice, used Hello Alices to support the growth of her company. Ultimately ended up selling her business and then came back and funded grant funds for other business owners. It was like this really cool full circle story of so neat to be a small part of her journey and then to get to see her actually getting back and fueling the ecosystem. I think it’s just an example of one, how much entrepreneurs are rooting for each other. Like, sure, we all know this is tough and everybody’s cheering each other on. And I think that’s sort of the essence of the community that we’ve built.

John Jantsch (20:40): Awesome. Well Carolyn, thanks so much for stopping by the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. You wanna tell people, obviously we’ve mentioned the name Hello Alice, but uh, you want to tell people where they can, uh, connect with you and find out more about Hello Alice?

Carolyn Rodz (20:53): Yes, please check us out@helloalice.com. You can follow us at hello Alice or hello alice com depending on the platform. I mean myself at Carolyn Rods.

John Jantsch (21:02): Awesome. Well thanks again and hopefully we’ll run into you one of these days when we’re both out there on the road somewhere

Carolyn Rodz (21:08): For sure. Thank you so much, John, I appreciate the time.

John Jantsch (21:11): Hey, and one final thing before you go. You know how I talk about marketing strategy strategy before tactics? Well, sometimes it can be hard to understand where you stand in that, what needs to be done with regard to creating a marketing strategy. So we created a free tool for you. It’s called the Marketing Strategy Assessment. You can find it @ marketingassessment.co. Check out our free marketing assessment and learn where you are with your strategy today. That’s just marketingassessment.co. I’d love to chat with you about the results that you get.

This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network and Air.

HubSpot Podcast Network is the audio destination for business professionals who seek the best education and inspiration on how to grow a business.

 

 

 

Air is the leading platform for marketing teams to manage and automate their Creative Operations. Air’s intuitive UI is purpose-built for visual assets. Find files faster with visual search and AI auto-tagging. Share files securely. Fast-track projects and feedback. Teams at Google, Sweetgreen, The Infatuation, and more are saving ten-plus hours a week using Air. Learn more at Air.inc/ducttape.

The Fastest And Least Expensive Way To Double Your Sales

The Fastest And Least Expensive Way To Double Your Sales written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Marketing Podcast with Amanda Holmes

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interview Amanda Holmes. Amanda is the CEO of Chet Holmes International (CHI) which has worked with over 250,000 businesses worldwide. At age 24, she inherited her father’s multi-million dollar enterprise, which specializes in helping companies double their sales. She’s the author of a book — Based on The Ultimate Sales Machine: Turbocharge Your Business with Relentless Focus on 12 Key Strategies.

Key Takeaway:

At just 24, Amanda Holmes inherited her father’s multi-million dollar enterprise – Chet Holmes International. Without much direction, she had to navigate the uncharted waters of running an enterprise at that scale. In this episode, Amanda shares more about her journey as CEO, the challenges of implementing change in a long-standing organization, and gives insight into the process her father developed years ago that has helped large companies quickly double their sales.

Questions I ask Amanda Holmes:

  • [2:49] What was it like being thrust into an ongoing organization as a family member?
  • [6:04] What was hard for you to change?
  • [7:58] What’s been the most fun for you when it comes to stepping into the CEO role of Chet Holmes International?
  • [9:26] Would you say that your music and arts background has brought a level of creativity that maybe didn’t exist in the org before?
  • [11:50] Who is your typical client at CHI?
  • [13:17] A core concept of your coaching is Dream 100 – can you describe what this is?
  • [17:48] One of the challenges you alluded to – we’re so focused on digital right now, you particularly have yourselves firmly in what you’re calling old-school processes – would you say that the old-school processes are working better than ever?
  • [19:59] Where can people find out more about you and your work?

More About Amanda Holmes:

Take The Marketing Assessment:

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

John Jantsch (00:00): This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by Content Is Profit hosted by Louis and Fonzi Kame, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. Discover the secrets and strategies of how your business can achieve the frictionless sale. They talk about frameworks, strategies, tactics, and bring special guests to bring you all the information you need in order to turn your content into profit. Recent episode, The power of just one big marketing idea and How to get it really brings home this idea that instead of chasing the idea of the week, really lock in on one big idea to differentiate your business that can make all the difference in the world. Listen to Content Is Profit wherever you get your podcasts.

(00:54): Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Amanda Holmes. She is the CEO of Chat Holmes International, which has worked with over 250,000 businesses worldwide. At age 24, she inherited her father’s multimillion dollar enterprise, which specializes in helping companies double their sales. A lot of their works based on the best selling book, The Ultimate Sales Machine, of which they have a new edition coming out. Amanda’s name will be all over the new edition as well. And she has merged her father’s proven process with her own forward thinking ideas to connect the old school sales process with hybrid, online and offline instant gratification and short attention span that we see in consumers today. So Amanda, welcome back to the show.

Amanda Holmes (01:45): Thank you so much, John. You know, it means so much to me that you interviewed my father and then you interviewed me so many years ago and here we are again. It just, it means a lot. I, not a lot of people interviewed my father either, so

John Jantsch (01:58): I I was gonna say, I might be one of the few podcasters who has interviewed you both .

Amanda Holmes (02:03): Yes. Just I have never heard it from anybody else and I’ve done hundreds of interviews, so you are the only one

John Jantsch (02:10): . That’s funny that, that was about 29, 20 0 9, 20 10, something like that maybe. And podcasting was in its infancy at the time, but somehow I’ve stuck with it

Amanda Holmes (02:21): .

John Jantsch (02:22): So we also have another shared connection. My daughter has actually worked for me for about 12 years. She is our chief operating officer. So I really kind of have to go there. Didn’t work in the business as a family member. Right. You really brought, came into the business. I would have to think in some ways that was a pretty tall order because in fact I think you were studying music in college and you know, not necessarily preparing for a career as a ceo. Right. So what’s it, I guess I was gonna ask you what’s like working with family, but that’s not really, it wasn’t really your experience. So what was it like really? And I know you’ve told this story many times, what was it like basically being thrust into an ongoing organization, but as a family member?

Amanda Holmes (03:08): Yes, it, well, it was hard because me and my father were very close. I was actually born in his birthday. We shared the same birthday February 13th, and it was as if just the stars aligned. And so losing him was like losing air . It was like I didn’t know where up was or down was. I couldn’t eat, I couldn’t sleep. So getting all of that while at the same time, like I can remember just days after his funeral. And the only reason why I remember that cuz all that time is such a blur, but I just remember all of these flowers around my room from his funeral and I was sitting there and they had just sent me the PNL of all the companies and it was the first time I’d ever seen it. And it just felt like this PNL was never ending. I kept scrolling and scrolling and I just broke down.

(03:55): It was like, how, how is this possible that, So my father battled with cancer for a year and a half before he passed. And he spent 352 nights in the hospital and never once did he spend it alone. So it was me, my mom, and my brother. We just, we rotated spending all-nighters with him. So I spent easily a hundred allnighters with my father in the hospital. Never once did he say, Hey Amanda, let me explain to you what my businesses are . Let me explain to you who runs them. Let me tell you about where I’d like this to go. We never had that dialogue and there was time and I speak on that because I think it’s critical that more parents take responsibility for the fact that there are other people that if you leave this world without a plan, you’re hindering them.

(04:48): So I do talk on that every once in a while. But, so it was utterly shocking and it really is. I look back and I think it’s a miracle that we’re here today based on the fact that Right, I knew nothing. I was trying to get over the loss of my father while couple hundred staff, you know, this crazy enterprise. But here we are. I stepped in and it took me two years to step in cuz it just looked like, this is crazy talk. I don’t know why I ever would. But then over time I fell in love with our clients. I recognized that there was something that was really beautiful about what my father had built and it could be carried on. It just needed that heart in the center of it to make it all work. And yeah, I increased our leads by 1176% the first year I stepped in and doubled our coaching clients multiple years in a row. And this year we’re up over 300% and that’s without the book releasing just yet. So it’s a lot of wonderful things. My father had a great system and a great framework for how to grow organizations and I had to learn it from his books and his training programs instead of him explaining it to me. But nonetheless, I think I’m probably one of his greatest success stories just because of that.

John Jantsch (06:04): Right. What was hard for you? I mean you, you, you obviously made some changes, you know, what was hard for you to change? I mean, not necessarily resistance, but just really hard for you to even wrap your head around

Amanda Holmes (06:16): Changing. So we had never processed an order online. My father was very strict around, you know, every sale should come from a salesperson having a conversation either over the phone or in person. So I could remember the first time that I put some pricing online and I took a moment and it was like, I’m so sorry dad, I know you said this, but times have changed and I have to do it, have to put some of our stuff online. So that was a big, that was a big turning point in learning how to do digital marketing was critical and selling things online. And then also a huge change was for me, the people that I surround myself with, a lot of them were very different than who my father surrounded himself with. So I find that the culture that he thrived in is different than the culture that I thrive in.

(07:08): And making that distinction because at first it was anybody that my father respected, ultimately they would say, Well your father said I was the best in the planet on this. And I’d go, Okay. And I’d put them up on this pedestal of who was the best, right? Cause my father said he was the best , even though I started realizing that everyone said that my father said they were the best. So then I started reading through his emails to try and figure out what he really thought of them. That was the way that I would find out. And then the next level was okay, just because my father said he was the best, now I have to discern, is this somebody that I can work with? And there were quite a few of them that did not work with me very well. And that’s okay. It’s just a little bit of a different modus operandi, but still the strategies are the same. So it was interesting to see that culture shift.

John Jantsch (07:59): So shifting gears a little bit to maybe a more positive, less of a challenge, what’s been the most fun for you?

Amanda Holmes (08:05): ? The marketing and sales part. Oh my gosh. Oh, you’ll appreciate this John. So I just, you know, I’m in this whole book tour thing going on right now, right? I just went to all these different trade shows. I spoke at HubSpots inbound, that’s where I saw that you’re in HubSpot Network. Congratulations on that. Yeah, that’s awesome. So I went there with a four foot billboard strapped to my back cuz I was looking for a way for people, My father teaches the first thing you need in a trade show is to get noticed. Yeah. And I was googling like, Oh, maybe we’ll do a backpack and we’ll design a backpack or something. And then I found, I typed in human billboard and this huge thing, it’s a backpack that straps, but it’s, and it lights up, it glows like a billboard sign. So I’ve been walking through all these trade shows with this poor foot billboard on my back. I call her Bessie now because I’m very fond of her. And on the last day of trafficking conversion, actually they shut me down because I was creating such a buzz and generating so many sales that the sponsors, the booths were getting jealous .

(09:12): But that’s been a blast. And just being really creative about ways to get attention and then converting those, that attention into sales and leads and sales. That’s a ton of fun for me.

John Jantsch (09:26): Would you say that your, and I know this is gonna sound sort of stereotypical, but would you say that your music background, your arts background, has brought a level of creativity that maybe didn’t exist?

Amanda Holmes (09:38): Absolutely. So the new addition to the book The Forward, instead of saying Dear Reader, I instead said Dear dad. And that was a, and it something that Julia Easton, my book coach at the time, had suggested I do. And when I wrote it, everyone that read that majority of grown men that read it would cry reading it. And they thought they, out of all the every page, every sentence, I made sure that it was some way to double sales. But that letter to my dad, everyone said lead with that. Cause that’s going to touch more people than just doubling sales techniques. And I put that into a video actually. And that’s been what I’ve been using to promote the book. So to me that video is a music video. I wrote the lyrics, even though I’m not singing them, they’re written. But everything that I had as a songwriter, I put into that video. To me, that’s the single that came out with this new edition of the book, which is kind of funny to think about. But man, it is hitting people in a completely different way that I never expected. And it was the most nerve-wracking thing on the planet to put that thing out. I really thought that. I didn’t think that people would like it, but everybody kept saying, I love it, I love it. You should put that out. And it’s been such a loving response. So yeah, that, that songwriter in me, I think

John Jantsch (11:01): Helps an out word from a sponsor. Hey look, if you’re still using Dropbox or Google Drive to store your images and videos, listen up. Well those are fine for storing docs and sheets. They’re not so great for marketers needing to store, organize, share, and collaborate on visual assets Air’s Intuitive UI is purpose-built for visual assets, find files faster with visual search and AI auto tagging, share files, securely fast track projects and feedback teams at Google Sweet Green, the infatuation in more are saving 10 plus hours a week using air. Air is the leading platform for marketing teams to manage and automate their creative operations. Learn more at Air.inc/ducttape. That’s air.inc/ducttape.

(11:51): , describe who C I A CH homes an international works with. Who’s your typical client?

Amanda Holmes (11:57): Yes. Okay, I’ll answer that by asking you a question. And you probably know the answer to this. What percentage of businesses do you think make it to a million in annual sales?

John Jantsch (12:06): I don’t know the exact answer other than it’s relatively small. Not,

Amanda Holmes (12:10): Yeah, if you

John Jantsch (12:11): Had to guess, I would say 9%.

Amanda Holmes (12:13): Okay. That’s close. That’s close. 5% of companies make it to a million of that 0.08%, make it to 5 million of that 1.5%, make it to 10 million. So it gets a little bit better. then 0.004%, make it to a hundred million and beyond. So what we teach is how to get from a million to five, from 5 million to 10, From 10 million to a hundred million and beyond. Because it’s actually not about our product or service, which majority of entrepreneurs think, yes, if I just tweak this a little bit more, then I’ll get more. Right. If that was true, McDonald’s wouldn’t be the number one grossing hamburger join in the world. Right? It’s a terrible burger. It’s skills it takes to grow the business and skills can be developed. So we assist entrepreneurs to grow from that one to five, from five to 10, from 10 to a hundred million and beyond.

John Jantsch (13:07): One of the core concepts. I have actually not, not seen what you’ve done in the second edition yet, but in the, certainly in the first edition. Well, and, and I know it’s a core concept of your coaching, is this, uh, concept of the Dream 100. I wonder if you could kind of describe that. Cause I know that’s a big E for

Amanda Holmes (13:22): You. Yes. It’s the fastest, least expensive way to double sales . This one strategy has doubled the sales of more companies than any other. My father invented it working for billionaire, Charlie Munger, co-chairman of Berkshire Hathaway. So he doubled the sales of nine different companies for Charlie all within 12 to 15 months. And several of them multiple years consecutively. So he realized that he had a system for doubling sales and it went something like this. So he was given a list of 2200 potential prospects and they said, Okay, go cold. Call these 2200. But when he did some research, he realized that only 167 of them purchased 95% of the space. So instead of going after 2200, he led an intensive dream 100 to just those hundred and 67. Now it being in their face, in their place, in their space, what can we do to provide the most value for them?

(14:14): For him, Back then it was direct mail, cold calling and faxing. So twice a month he was doing direct mail. Four times a month he was cold calling and following up with a fax in an email every once in a while. And he did that for months. For the first four months he got nothing, which, and talked around the office like, what is this? Why is this expert in sales? And he hasn’t generated a thing. But in the sixth month he closed the largest contract that the industry had ever seen. And then subsequently after that doubled it doubled now. So by definition, there’s always a smaller number of better buyers than there are all buyers. That means that marketing and selling to them is cheaper than marketing and selling to all buyers. And I’ve even, as I look at this and what you’ll see in the new edition is so many people get, they see the Dream 100 and they go, Oh my gosh, how do I do direct mail?

(15:04): How can I make this work with direct mail? And how do I get a hundred people on my list? You’re missing the point if you’re super focused on just those two things. Because we have so many marketing mediums in our use today. I show how I used a dream One, I focused on one potential dream client and I followed up with them every single day using social media. Every time they post something on social, I’d comment with something of value. Every time they posted another thing, I’d add another piece of value and another comment at another For every single day, for three months, I commented on every single thing that this person said. And three months in they came back to me and said, Hey, I’d like to buy 650 books of the Ultimate Sales Machine. I’m still reaping the benefits of that. Three months of Pig had a discipline and determination.

(15:52): Today they bought another thousand books. It’s actually, it was the CEO of ClickFunnels. So Dave Woodward I did this with. So the point is, it’s about picking who’s one person that could completely change your world. And then can you multiply that even by, you could have four, you could have 10, I’m calling it the Target 12. It doesn’t have to be a hundred, right? The whole point is just to get laser focused and follow up with pigheaded discipline and determination, whichever medium that may be. If you wanna use direct mail, that’s great because it will land cuz nobody’s doing direct mail, right? Yeah, yeah. But if you wanna do it on Instagram dms, that’s where I did it to get that client. Right. It could be on LinkedIn, it could be on voice drops, on cell phones

John Jantsch (16:35): Or all of them. Right? Or all of them. Or all of them, right?

Amanda Holmes (16:38): . Yeah. If you only have a hundred, Right? And you’re sending, if you’re doing Facebook ads to them, if you are sending them text messages, if you’re arriving at their door, they’re like, you are everywhere. It’s like, yeah, I’m only everywhere to the select 10, right? Select a hundred. So they’re just amazed, right?

John Jantsch (16:53): Yeah. And I think what’s so important about that lesson is you can now afford to spend money and time and energy that is gonna just swamp what anybody else is doing, you know, to that same person because they’re spraying it, you know, 10,000 people at a time.

Amanda Holmes (17:11): Absolutely. We had a client, so I went, I’ve created these bootcamps and a client went through the bootcamp, they went after four people that had already said no to their services. It was a hard, no, I’m definitely not interested. And then he led with an education to those four. After he gave the presentation of an education, he closed 8.4 million worth of sales in just six weeks. Six weeks. And the average sales rep would sell 8 million in an entire year. He did it in six weeks. Cuz he targeted his dream. He only needed four. Dream four to generate 8.4 million.

John Jantsch (17:49): So one of the challenges, I th I, you kind of alluded to this, we’re so focused on digital right now, you, you have yourselves firmly in what you’re calling old school processes, but they really, in some ways, some of the old school processes are working better than ever, aren’t they?

Amanda Holmes (18:07): Absolutely. I mean, take what I just did at trade shows. It’s shocking how many people at trade shows have no idea how to have a face-to-face conversation. I’d walk up to a booth and 90% of them had no idea how to start asking questions. You know, I’d ask, What do you do? And they have no idea. They look starstruck. Like what? You’re talking to me in real life. I don’t know what to do. It’s so bizarre how we’ve lost the frameworks and the basic foundational principles. Everyone thought, Oh, a billboard. Yeah, that’s brilliant. But then I also QR code there so that I could collect people that were taking pictures. Anyways, the first few days they were taking pictures of me cuz they thought I was hysterical. But then they didn’t realize that now I’m converting them cuz they’re clicking on that I’m getting their email and then they’re buying.

(18:54): So it’s blending of the two. My funnel online got me the sales, but me walking around with a four foot billboard on my back in a trade show got the attention in the press. And now I’ve taken vi video that I got from influencers in the space that were recording me cuz they thought it was hilarious. And I’m using that in my ads and I’m repurposing it, right? So there’s so many different ways that I think in person too. It was just at a mastermind with Grant Cardone two weeks ago, and there were 80 people in the room, all of which would’ve loved to talk to Grant Cardone. He walked out of the room and nobody followed him. And I’m looking around the room going, Are you kidding me? That’s a billionaire. I’d love to talk to Grand Cardell. Why not? So I run out there and I start to have a dialogue with him. It’s like, it’s as if we only can communicate through a text or on right in an in a social media aspect. He was right there living, breathing. And I handed him the book and I said, You should watch Dear Dad, it’ll make you cry. I’ll send you a book. And he’s like, I will definitely cry from that. I’m sure I will. I love that. Thank you

John Jantsch (19:54): . Amanda, thanks for dropping by the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. Tell people where they can find all the work that you’re doing and certainly get a copy of the new book or the re revised, updated, fully updated book.

Amanda Holmes (20:06): Yes. Ultimate sales machine.com is where everybody can pick up the book. It’ll give you a bunch of extra bonuses that you wouldn’t get on Amazon. And then if you wanna online, I’m a lot of different places, but I spend more of my time on Instagram. My name Amanda Holmes was taken, so I’d use my salsa name Amanda Dita Holmes. So you can find me on Instagram at Amanda dita Homes.

John Jantsch (20:29): All right, awesome. Well, great to having you back on the show again and uh, hopefully we’ll run into you again, one of these days out there on the road.

Amanda Holmes (20:36): Thank you, John. It was such a blessing.

John Jantsch (20:38): Hey, and one final thing before you go. You know how I talk about marketing strategy, strategy before tactics? Well, sometimes it can be hard to understand where you stand in that, what needs to be done with regard to creating a marketing strategy. So we created a free tool for you. It’s called the Marketing Strategy Assessment. You can find it @ marketingassessment.co. Check out our free marketing assessment and learn where you are with your strategy today. That’s just marketingassessment.co. I’d love to chat with you about the results that you get.

This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network and Air.

HubSpot Podcast Network is the audio destination for business professionals who seek the best education and inspiration on how to grow a business.

 

 

 

Air is the leading platform for marketing teams to manage and automate their Creative Operations. Air’s intuitive UI is purpose-built for visual assets. Find files faster with visual search and AI auto-tagging. Share files securely. Fast-track projects and feedback. Teams at Google, Sweetgreen, The Infatuation, and more are saving ten-plus hours a week using Air. Learn more at Air.inc/ducttape.

 

How To Use Immersion To Create Amazing Experiences

How To Use Immersion To Create Amazing Experiences written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Marketing Podcast with Dr. Paul J. Zak

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interview Dr. Paul J. Zak. Dr. Zak is a Professor at Claremont Graduate University. A four-time tech entrepreneur, his most recent company Immersion Neuroscience is a software platform that allows anyone to measure what the brain loves in real-time to improve outcomes in entertainment, education and training, advertising, and live events. He is also the author of Immersion: The Science of the Extraordinary and the Source of Happiness.

Key Takeaway:

The world is rapidly transforming into an experience economy as people increasingly crave extraordinary experiences. There’s a scientific formula to consistently create extraordinary experiences. The data shows that those who use this formula increase the impact of experiences tenfold. Creating the extraordinary used to be extraordinarily hard. In this episode, I talk with Dr. Paul J. Zak about his framework for transforming nearly any situation from ordinary to extraordinary.

Questions I ask Dr. Paul J. Zak:

  • [2:01] Define immersion and influence.
  • [2:44] What is the neuroscience behind what we’re talking about?
  • [3:41] What’s going on in the brain that you’re able to measure what the brain loves?
  • [4:36] The lab that you ran was really credited with the discovery of oxytocin, is that an overstatement?
  • [5:59] What was the work that you did with DARPA?
  • [7:26] What role does immersion play in creating or becoming a source of happiness?
  • [9:06] Is there a way for us to train mindfulness of a customer or of a reader in a way that’s going to help them become more immersed because they’re more mindful?
  • [11:30] Is there a way to use this framework to create better digital experiences or automated experiences?
  • [13:07] Are there things that somebody can do to create a more immersive experience? And is there kind of a checklist of ways people could up their game in more mass settings?
  • [17:38] In what ways can you measure outside of the laboratory?
  • [21:08] Where can people learn more about your work and pick up a copy of your book?

More About Dr. Paul J. Zak:

Take The Marketing Assessment:

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

John Jantsch (00:00): This episode or the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by Content Is Profit hosted by Luis and Fonzi Kajo, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. Discover the secrets and strategies of how your business can achieve the frictionless sale. They talk about frameworks, strategies, tactics, and bring special guests to bring you all the information you need in order to turn your content into profit. Recent episode, The power of just one big marketing idea and How to get it really brings home this idea that instead of chasing the idea of the week, really lock in on one big idea to differentiate your business that can make all the difference in the world. Listen to Content Is Profit wherever you get your podcasts.

(00:53): Hello and welcome to another episode with the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Dr. Paul J .Zak. He’s a professor at Claremont Graduate University, a four time tech entrepreneur. His most recent company, Immersion Neuroscience is a software platform that allows anyone to measure what the brain loves in real time to improve outcomes in entertainment, education and training, advertising, live events. You name it. So Dr. Zach, welcome to the show. I forgot to mention, of course, we’re gonna talk about your book. You’re also the author of Immersion, The Science of Extraordinary and the Source of Happiness. So welcome to the show.

Dr. Paul J. Zak (01:32): Thank you so much, John.

John Jantsch (01:34): I have to start it out by saying that I cried at the end of Lala Land too. I’ve watched it three or four times. I even went to the planetarium the last time was in la. So you got me really with that story.

Dr. Paul J. Zak (01:46): And it’s a weird thing, right? Neurologically, I’m a behavioral neuroscientist. Super weird that we’re crying at a flickering 2D image. Like what is the deal with that ?

John Jantsch (01:57): So help me rather than just ask you like defined immersion, maybe let’s start with our immersion and influence different related, not the same at all. I could see some people talking, I could see some people reading the book and thinking, oh, this is about influence.

Dr. Paul J. Zak (02:13): Yes and no. Like any good question, the answer is yes and no. So right,

John Jantsch (02:16): There

Dr. Paul J. Zak (02:16): You go. Immersion is a neurologic state that my research uncovered that strongly predicts what people will do after an experience. Therefore, if I created immersive experience for you, I am likely to be able to influence your behavior.

John Jantsch (02:34): You are a research scientist and so I get to ask you, I don’t have a lot of those on here. I get to ask you the, what is the neuroscience behind the, this thing that we’re talking about,

Dr. Paul J. Zak (02:45): Right? And I should say this is 20 years of my life. And so like we knew what we were doing this whole time. So I’m gonna give you the answer. So two core components we found predict what people will do after a message or an experience. One is you’ve gotta pay attention. That’s a given, right? If you’re not paying attention, you’re somewhere else, it’s not gonna work. That’s really the necessary condition. But the sufficient condition to induce you to take an action is, can I use one bad word, John? Am I allowed one of our, one of our subscribers, the software called this, the give a shit measure. You have to be emotionally engaged by this. You have to actually care about it. And neurologically, this is interesting because the brain wants to idle. Cause it takes so much energy to really be fully immersed in an experience. So if you’re attentive and you have this emotional resonance, like, holy crap, I’m here. This is awesome. Give me more of this.

John Jantsch (03:32): So what’s going on? You know, you’re, you’re, I read in the, you know, the software platform that measures, you know, the brain love what the brain loves in real time. I mean, what’s going on in the brain that you’re able to go, oh, there it is,

Dr. Paul J. Zak (03:45): Right? It’s a very weird state and that’s why I gave you this word immersion because it is like being sucked into a movie or ad where we just can’t forget it. So the attentional response is associated with the brain’s binding of dopamine in the prefrontal cortex. So that’s kind of a zero one variable. And that emotional resonance is driven by the brain’s release of a neuro called oxytocin, right? Which is associated with empathy and with cooperative behaviors trust. And so if I can create a marketing platform that produces this immersive state that I’m all in, I’m digging this, right? And so I think, you know, what we’re bringing to the table from the book is that this is measurable at one second frequency objectively. And having measured 50,000 brains, I can then share kind of key insights what those trends look like on how to create, say great marketing.

John Jantsch (04:36): Correct me if I’m overstating this, but the lab that that you ran was really credited with discovery of oxytocin. Is that an overstatement?

Dr. Paul J. Zak (04:45): Overstatement? We developed the first protocol to measure the human brain’s acute production of oxytocin and then showed it had behavioral effects. So prior to our work, it was well known there was a Nobel Prize in chemistry or medicine, maybe a chem chemistry maybe in the mid fifties for the guy who first actually was able to capture oxytocin. But it was just sounded, it was female hormones that’s with birth and breastfeeding, not very interesting. And yet there was a rich animal literature showing that oxytocin is kind of a key driver of connection, if you will, attachment safety.

John Jantsch (05:16): Well it, it seems, the reason I bring that specific one up is it is, I know it’s key element of your work, but it’s also, it’s getting a lot of buzz lately in marketing circles. And so I guess it might not be an overstatement to say the application of what oxytocin does maybe is fairly new.

Dr. Paul J. Zak (05:33): Yeah, fair enough. And the technology we developed in the early two thousands and onward was blood draws and, you know, not really ready for prime time in the business setting. Mm-hmm. . So now being able to get that data, the electrical signals associated with that from things like a smart watch, now you have a scalable and usable technology outside the lab.

John Jantsch (05:52): Like most good marketing tactics and techniques, they were developed trying to influence POWs and terrorists. So tell me a little bit about the work that you did with darpa and really, i, I don’t know why, Well, I’ll just let you tell me the story of how that then sort of pivoted to being more universally used.

Dr. Paul J. Zak (06:13): Yeah, very good question. Again, because of the oxytocin work in the early two thousands, got pressed, got, there was interest I was invited to, to present this work to darpa. And you know, they said, Oh, if this is part of the influence of humans, then we should be using this to get, you know, secrets from terrorists. It’s a little more complicated than that. But they did fund, or the war and terror funded a lot of the research we did and the US intelligence community because we were building a platform that would allow us to essentially tested communication. And lemme say for listeners, this is a very noble endeavor. The goal was to equip soldiers with a new superpower called persuasion to reduce conflict, right? I can try to get information by threatening you or I can try to tell you a story I can get you to care about the issues I care about. And so, yeah, so thank you to the US taxpayers who funded a lot of the basic research that went into this.

John Jantsch (07:05): So, um, in the subtitle, I think the science of Extraordinary, I think most people can think, oh yeah, creating extraordinary experiences emerged immersive experiences. I hear people, you know, use that term for something that they’re really into and it just takes in all their senses. But I wanna go to the source of happiness. You know, what, what role does immersion play in creating or becoming a source of happiness?

Dr. Paul J. Zak (07:31): So I wanna answer that in two ways. One is the, the kind of business setting. So in terms of customer lifetime value, I want you to have an amazing experience every time you interact with me online in person, right? So how do I know that I can guess I can get you to do nps or I could measure second by second. So as you know, the book has lots of examples of I think sometimes counterintuitive ways to create this wow experience. But the second is really interestingly, and this is very new research in neuroscience, that when I have more peak immersion experiences, I begin to train my brain to be more fully immersed. And there’s the book, if you remember, there’s an algorithm that tells you how to do that, right? I’m actually preparing you to be a better spouse of better colleague, a better parent, because I’m allowing you to kind of stretch those neural resources that go, oh yeah, you can be full of in, right? It’s the brain’s very conservative, right? Evolution conservancy pathways. So the pathways in the brain for romantic love for attachment to friends, children, and to love for a brand are very similar. And so if you haven’t been in love, then you don’t really know how to be in love. Once you’ve been in love a couple times, you can really be a much better say spouse or romantic partner.

John Jantsch (08:47): You know, as I listen to you describe that, it feels like there’s a lot of relationship to mindfulness. I mean, we can be more immersed in something if we’re fully present, right? I mean that’s that. I mean, every couple’s therapy person would tell you in the world, right? They’d just be more present actually. Listen, be mindful of what’s going on in that moment. How is there a way for us to train mindfulness, say, of a customer or of a reader in a way that’s going to help them become more immersed because they’re more mindful? And also feel free to say no, that’s a crock of whatever, John.

Dr. Paul J. Zak (09:19): No, that’s perfect John. So I call this staging in the book, right? Yeah. So I wanna set the stage so that you come in and you feel comfortable, you feel relaxed. So if we think of rushing a customer through an experience, that rush is a stress response. I’m burning neural bandwidth that takes away from that person really enjoying the experience. So, um, there is an evil plan here, right? The evil plan is to create a fricking crazy good experience for that customer. So they want do this again and again. Now the customer wants that too. So it’s not really evil, sorry. So think of being in the theater, right? The lights come down, we ask you to turn off your screens, right? The mute, the sounds probably a little louder than you would normally listen to at home. So I’m setting the stage that you’re ready to be fully present for that experience. So I think in the retail setting, there’s this term narrative retail. Like I wanna actually create a setting. So you come in, you feel like, oh, okay, I feel so comfortable here. I feel so relaxed. And for marketing too. Now for marketing, we have a much shorter time period. I don’t get to keep you for half an hour. So you’ve got a small window where I can get you to be relaxed, but also get you to care about what I’m, you know, telling you.

John Jantsch (10:26): And now word from a sponsor. Hey look, if you’re still using Dropbox or Google Drive to store your images and videos, listen up. Well those are fine for storing docs and sheets. They’re not so great for marketers Needing to store organized share and collaborate on visual assets Air’s Intuitive UI is purpose built for visual assets, find files faster with visual search and AI auto tagging, share files, securely fast track projects and feedback teams at Google Sweet Green, the infatuation and more are saving 10 plus hours a week. Using Air is the leading platform for marketing teams to manage and automate their creative operations. Learn more at Air.inc/ducttape. That’s air.inc/ducttape.

(11:15): You know, I think it, I wanna get it in the framework a little bit in a minute, but I think that most people can say, Oh yeah, okay, like you said, music’s on the chairs are comfy, We’re gonna meet face to face. My body language will, you know, make people comfortable. I think most people can envision that. How do we create digital experiences where we’re, there’s no human contact. Maybe they’re interacting with a form, you know, as they’re first experience with you. Is there a way to use this framework or this thinking to create better digital experiences or automated experiences?

Dr. Paul J. Zak (11:46): But I think it’s the same thing in, in, you know, direct sales, right? If I call you, I’m gonna go, John, I’m gonna sell you something that’s gonna be a like settle down. Hi John, I’m Paul. So with technology we can do that, right? If I, if you’ve used my service before or have your IP address, I could say, Hey, welcome Paul from I’m in Loma Linda Paul from Loma Linda, California. Uh, happy you’re back. Right? And so I think this is really intricating the UX with crm. Yeah. So once I know something about you, hey, last time you were here you were looking at uh, leather shoes, we’ve got a great new pair, I think you’re gonna like these. Oh wow. Right? So this customization at scale I think can really work. But it’s gotta be genuine. If it’s a robot speaking robot languages, which is pretty much gone now, but you know, that would be too weird. That’s the uncanny valley kind of stuff. But if it’s friendly and real and like hey, if you wanna talk to a real human like I’m your chat bot, my name is Bob, whatever, . Yeah. Yeah, right. So customization of scale I think really brings this home and it’s gotta feel friendly. It’s gotta feel like the place I want to be cause I got a lot of options. Yeah.

John Jantsch (12:48): Yeah. And I think that one of the things that’s probably happening very rapidly is people are coming to expect that. And so it’s almost like the bar has been raised that if you’re not doing it actually stands out more than it certainly used to. The behavior’s been changed. So let’s talk about two instances in which that are very different. Are there in a one to one meeting, you know, are there things that somebody can do to create a more inverse immersive experience? And then the second one is like, okay, a hundred of my clients are coming to an event. What are some things we should be looking at? Are there, And obviously I’ll give you certainly the, well it depends obvi, you know, no question. But are there, is there kind of a checklist of things, ways people could up their game one on one and ways people get up their game in more mass settings?

Dr. Paul J. Zak (13:40): Yeah, great question. So I have this sort of algorithm in the book with the acronym S I RT a certain out like certain. So first is staging again, making that comfortable environment not too cold, not too warm. And the second is immersion. So how do I immerse you in this experience? And the most effective way we have found is storytelling. So tell me human sales scale story with authentic characters who have emotions, who have a problem and my product or service, you know, solves that problem. The are insert is sort of nce make it relevant to me. So for one-on-one, it’s much easier to do. I can target to you and I should, if I’m a great salesperson, I should be listening much more than I’m speaking, right? I should make it really relevant to you. And again, use that previous purchase if it’s a, if it’s subcu you’ve had before.

(14:23): And then really targeting that so is for target, targeting that description for you as an individual. So again, one on one that’s much easier. Mm-hmm . And then have a call to action so that caldo action is gonna be more effective if it occurs at an immersion being peak. So think of immersion as as kind the emotional resonance of that experience. So if I have a telling the story, here’s how the product works, here’s how it can work for you, using your name, using, you know, all that. Or using social proof people like you add a customer just like you John. And what he did was do this makes it really relevant to me. Social proof is powerful. But then don’t stop and close the story and go, I think you need the same solution. I think you’re in exactly the same as Bob was.

(15:07): And so John, I think you should be, you know, buying our software right now. So again, one on one, that means a lot of listening. I gotta be really careful when it’s one to many. Again, I want to choose who that many are, right? If it’s all comers, very hard to do that specialization unless you use technology, right? A scale, I can do it. If I have technology, I have a lot of information about you. So again, set the stage, um, create this storytelling. So we’ve tried every way to immerse people and stories are the most effective, but they have to be authentic stories. They have to be real stories, right? Even unless you’re really a trained actor, it’s hard to, you know, we’re good at picking up bs. My lab published a paper in the last year showing that with almost perfect certain. And your brain knows when someone’s lying, even if you don’t, can’t consciously say that.

(15:52): The brain will reveal it. So unconsciously go, ah, I think John’s full of crap, right? So yeah, yeah, yeah. So again, authentic story and then make it relevant to me. So if it’s a nice story, but it doesn’t, if you’re trying to sell me diapers and that you have a story with cute little babies, but I don’t have infants at home, my brain will just flush it out. It’ll be interesting. I might enjoy, it doesn’t, it’s not gonna provoke action. So in short, you know, immersion is the think of immersion as like tension in your brain. Like from a story. And we don’t want to have tension. You put tension in my brain, let me dissipate that tension by doing something. So really have that call to action. And I think leaning into that, that I want to help this customer, I created this emerging experience, it’s been targeted to you. Give me something to do now. So a concrete example, I am shocked by how many ads that have gone on linear TV go on YouTube and they don’t bother to put in a hot link by now you told me a great story. I love this ad. You spent millions of dollars put on a fricking hot link. I’m excited, I’m ready to go. I’m gonna buy this thing. And you don’t, you can’t even bother to put a link in there to where I can buy it. Holy crap. That’s stupid.

John Jantsch (17:04): Yeah. Or today I’m seeing some marketers using QR codes, you know, Of course. Cuz everybody’s, everybody knows how to use those now . Yeah. You know, as the direct link to it. It because you’ve done scientific research like, like stuff hooked up to people when they go through an MRI and whatnot. I mean you’re seeing like, oh okay, that’s exact signal that happen. Are there ways outside of the laboratory to that that you’ve found that you can measure whether or not you are doing what you’re talking about? If you’re creating an extraordinary experience other than lifetime value, the customer goes up, I get more sales. I mean, are there ways that you can start measuring like people are doing more of x or are there even body language tells, you know, you talked about you can tell when somebody’s lying. A lot of times it looks like they’re left eye twitchees or something. . But uh, we pick

Dr. Paul J. Zak (17:50): Up only it was so easy,

John Jantsch (17:51): Right? Right, right.

Dr. Paul J. Zak (17:52): Yeah. So and that’s why we founded this to offer a platform immersion. Yeah. So that we pulled data from smart watchers or fitness sensors, People opt in, right? So you ask people if they can participate and then you can actually see second by second what their brain values. John, here’s the coolest thing for live experiences because immersion captures social value is contagious. So we have some clients in the luxury retail space that have their salesperson with an Apple watch and they can predict with 85% certainty which customers buy. And the more immersed a salesperson is in that interaction, the more the customer spends. So then I can go back and reverse engineer, right? We have Cam everywhere has cameras. This is a public space. You don’t have to consent people to, to film them in a retail shop and ask, oh it’s always 80 20.

(18:36): Who are the 20% of your sales people who sell 80% of the stuff? What are they doing? They’re making eye contact. Are they touching shoulders? I don’t know what they’re doing. So there’s a lot that can be done there by just measurement. That’s the first. And then second is intuitively you can think about creating this really immersive experience. Look for people smiling, look for the shoulders, dropping this relaxation. Like just like I give a lot of talks to clinical group. So we work a lot in psychiatry. Like when you go to your doctor, don’t make me wait, Don’t maybe put in a cold room. That’s a stressor. Don’t maybe wear that stupid little gown that doesn’t even cover my genitals. You know, like make it a comfortable environment for me. I’m gonna be a lot more compelling. It’s gonna be a better experience for me. So really think about it from the client’s perspective. What would be the best thing ever? You know my name, you know what I shop, you know what drives me nuts. Starbucks, I use the app, right? Yeah. And then go, what’s your name? Right?

John Jantsch (19:29): Right.

Dr. Paul J. Zak (19:29): Crap, I’m using the goddamn app. What? You should be thanking me. You should go, Hey Paul, thank you for, or Mr. Zack, even better. Thank you Mr. Zack for coming to Starbucks. Wow, that’s great.

John Jantsch (19:38): Yeah, it probably says it right on the screen too, is the thing. But you know what’s so funny about that is I listen to you talk about like some of these things that are, don’t seem to make sense or certainly don’t create a great experience. It’s, we’re not even talking about money to change those. You know, it’s actually, as you said, just putting yourself in the point of view of what would be a great experience rather than this is how we’ve always done it. You know, which is I submit why most of the experience we’re subjected to happens is because this is how we’ve always done it,

Dr. Paul J. Zak (20:05): Right? Yeah, exactly. Right. And to think that even if I like it, that you’re gonna like it. So I think that’s for want of testing and you can test any way you want. But you know, I’m a big believer in talking to customers. I mean, I think you just, if you’re a leader of any group, you gotta go out there on the front lines and figure out what this experience is like. We had a, just a quick story, a well known but kind of dusty airline, you know, measure the whole flight experience using our technology from the check in to the onboard. And man, you find some interesting things that are surprisingly interesting. Like people don’t care about the drink cart. That’s interesting. But the check in with a person, that is an opportunity to make this experience special. Yeah. Right? Yeah. We look and check in online or whatever in the machine, but think about like for your business travelers, if you’re a business or first, I would, you know, really have a person out there that knows your name, you know that, you know facial recognition, they know who my business people are.

(21:02): I, they should be greeting me by name. I just spent whatever, $3,000 for a flight. Damnit, you should know my name. Yeah.

John Jantsch (21:08): Talking with the Dr. Paul Zach, author of Immersion. So you wanna tell people where they can connect with you, find out about your work, and certainly pick up a copy of the book.

Dr. Paul J. Zak (21:17): Sure, you can find the book at Amazon or your favorite online seller. Find out more about me@getimmersion.com. And I love questions. If you have a question, you know, send it in. Say, Nah, this seems crazy to me. Or you know, happy to engage with anyone who listens to this podcast is gonna be a friend of mine. So shoot me a question.

John Jantsch (21:36): Well Paul, thanks so much again for stopping by the Duct Tape Marketing podcast and hopefully we’ll see you one of these days out there on the road.

Dr. Paul J. Zak (21:41): Thank you John. Hey,

John Jantsch (21:43): And one final thing before you go. You know how I talk about marketing strategy, strategy before tactics? Well, sometimes it can be hard to understand where you stand in that, what needs to be done with regard to creating a marketing strategy. So we created a free tool for you. It’s called the Marketing Strategy Assessment. You can find it@ marketingassessment.co. Check out our free marketing assessment and learn where you are with your strategy today. That’s just marketinassessment.co. I’d love to chat with you about the results that you get.

This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network and Air.

HubSpot Podcast Network is the audio destination for business professionals who seek the best education and inspiration on how to grow a business.

 

 

Air is the leading platform for marketing teams to manage and automate their Creative Operations. Air’s intuitive UI is purpose-built for visual assets. Find files faster with visual search and AI auto-tagging. Share files securely. Fast-track projects and feedback. Teams at Google, Sweetgreen, The Infatuation, and more are saving ten-plus hours a week using Air. Learn more at Air.inc/ducttape.

 

Weekend Favs March 28

Weekend Favs March 28 written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

My weekend blog post routine includes posting links to a handful of tools or great content I ran across during the week.

I don’t go into depth about the finds, but encourage you to check them out if they sound interesting. The photo in the post is a favorite for the week from an online source or one that I took out there on the road.

  • MarketMuse – Use AI to help you plan and write your content.
  • Air – Share images and videos with your team remotely.
  • Flat Icons – Access tens of thousands of customizable flat icons.

These are my weekend favs, I would love to hear about some of yours – Tweet me @ducttape