John Jantsch (00:00.976)

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Dr. Julia Garcia. She’s a psychologist, speaker, and author who has dedicated her career to teaching the science and practice of hope. Her Five Habits of Hope framework blends research, client stories, and her own journey overcoming adversity. She’s worked with organizations, schools, and leaders to help them move from survival to thriving.

Making hope a practical tool for transformation. We’re going to talk about her new book, The Five Habits of Hope, Stories and Strategies to Help You Find Your Way. So Julia, welcome to the show.

Julia (00:40.184)

Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

John Jantsch (00:43.686)

So and I’m sure you get asked this all the time. I know you have an answer for this, but I’ll tee it up anyway You know a lot of people think of hope is like an emotion or a mindset and you’re reframing it actually as a habit not just something that Happens to you, but something you actually can control so unpack that for me

Julia (01:02.924)

Yeah, definitely. Well, I guess the best way to explain this is, do you know when you have hope? Do know when you feel it? Would you agree? Okay. And do you know when you don’t? Have you ever felt like you didn’t have it?

John Jantsch (01:11.413)

Yes, yes, yes.

John Jantsch (01:17.166)

Yeah, you know, like we’re down by three touchdowns and there’s three minutes left, right?

Julia (01:19.854)

Exactly. So you know when you have it and you know when you don’t. it’s one of those things that’s connected to our feelings. And so the biggest thing is we don’t always have a process or a way to navigate our feelings. So when we do that, then we can always have a process back to hope. So it starts with emotional habits to help us build and navigate back to hope. Because at the end of the day, I could tell you,

Hope is a cognitive science, but it really comes down to how you feel about it. And so if you’ve got feelings that are blocking you from having hope, then what we need to do is actually focus on how we process and navigate our feelings with emotional habits of hope.

John Jantsch (02:03.046)

And I think we’ve all experienced people that probably shouldn’t have that much hope, but they seem to, right? I mean, like they’re in a situation where you think I would never want to find myself in that situation, but that person still seems pretty hopeful. I mean, I think that explains a little of what you’re talking about, isn’t it?

Julia (02:08.366)

If all’s hope is not the same. Yeah. Yeah.

Julia (02:23.342)

Yeah, I like to debunk some of the things that actually hope aren’t. And so sometimes people think hope is being happy. And that’s not like true. That’s not what it is. And some people think you have to have a lot of it or a big amount or be the loudest about it or be super positive. And that’s not true either. You can have a very tiny bit and it might even be unseen to other people. And it could be just enough to get you through.

John Jantsch (02:47.418)

So what’s the, because you allude to it in your bio, what’s kind of the specific story in your life that kind of tested this idea for you?

Julia (02:56.504)

Well, I never thought hope was like something that takes seriously that could help me in my career and my relationships in life in general. had no idea that it was like the single greatest predictor to our health and wellbeing. I really didn’t think that it had much substance to it. But when I look back to what happens when we don’t have it in the moments I have been hopeless, that is a darkness that you don’t wish upon anybody. And in my work, I’ve actually had like a front row seat to

millions of people sharing those dark spaces that they’ve been in. They could be professionals, they could be students, they could be parents and family members. And it really didn’t matter what demographic a person it was or where they were from. That kind of similar dark place of despair was something almost everybody has ventured to and not sure how they were going to get out of it. And that really opened my eyes to it’s not just something I’ve felt and struggled with that I’m seeing the masses of people I work with.

There’s a disconnect in being able to face our feelings so that we can get out of those places of darkness or despair that affect our relationships, our workflow, our teams, our culture, and the way that we build our lives.

John Jantsch (04:10.374)

So I don’t want you to go habit by habit and tell us the whole story. People should buy the book to get the whole story. But give us a little bit of the overview of the habits themselves. First one, own your own story.

Julia (04:22.796)

Yeah, I think that the emotional habits are really the premises for me. I did anything but face feelings. I thought like if I got real about my feelings or got vulnerable in any way, shape or form that I was weak, that I’d be a burden, those things. So it helps us really navigate the emotional things. And one of my favorite ones that I think your listeners will really like is habit number five, which is

the habit of repurposing. And it’s where we take parts of our story and we rewrite it, we rebrand it, we rechannel it into something innovative, creative, a project, anything that you can think of. This was actually something I had. There was, for an example, I wasn’t in the space of social media at the time, but I started really observing how people were using it and the impact it had on culture. And one day I learned that there were some people who were

getting harassed online and even taking their lives to the experiences that they were having from social media abuse and harassment and things like that. So what I did is I took the anger and the frustration I felt of learning about that and how people were experiencing it in a very harmful way. And I created a mobile app to help create a safe space for people online. And this was years ago, but the point is I took a feeling and I repurposed it through an emotional habit of hope.

and I created something from it.

John Jantsch (05:47.238)

So one of the big themes I think in the book is this idea of reframing adversity. Obviously people that are feeling very hopeless, you the first step is to kind of reframe that. So how do you help people kind of deal with that? Or could you even share an example from your own life or somebody you’ve coached that really took that big step, that big first step, I guess?

Julia (06:08.568)

Yeah.

Julia (06:13.666)

Yeah, I think reframing has a lot to do with the language and replacing language because really what happens is we feel a certain way and then we start to do things in response to that feeling. So for example, I didn’t feel like I had worth, I felt worthless. And so then it became, I would do things that maybe weren’t helpful for me to advance my career or relationships. They actually were the opposite. They were self-destructive.

And then I would be like, yep, because I’m worthless. So then it would affirm an identity, a sense of self. So the feeling informed my identity. And then it just kept going on this negative loop. And you know it, if you’ve ever had those thoughts, if I can’t do it, I’m not good enough. I’m less than, I’m worthless. And so instead of just stopping those habits in our minds, because that’s really hard to do to just stop something, what we do is we interject and we replace it with something. So we could say, I’m worth more. Or we can also add something. We could say,

I’m anxious and afraid, but I’m also courageous and brave. And it’s actually breaking thought cycles and rewiring those neural pathways in our minds so that we can rewrite our stories that we tell ourselves in our mind that tell us who and who we aren’t. So our thoughts and feelings are starting to align with the identity that we feel empowered by.

John Jantsch (07:35.216)

There’s a lot in the news lately about kind of an epidemic of loneliness almost that seems to be really pervasive. You talk a lot about the need for community as and relationships as a big part of kind of getting as one of the habits actually even. So how can somebody who is really feeling that, you know, that sense of loneliness take advantage of that idea?

Julia (07:46.904)

Mm-hmm.

Julia (08:00.728)

Yeah, think when I think of lonely, loneliness does not discriminate. You could be super connected, really successful and feel utterly alone. And I want to say that because if you’re listening and you feel that, I just want you to know you are not alone in that. And habit number two, I would say is a really big one for this generation in particular. It’s the habit of emotional risk. So I used to think risk taking was like adrenaline rushes. I’ve jumped out of an airplane three times, love roller coasters, all the things.

But emotional risk is very different and only you know what you hold back in emotionally. Only you know that you didn’t actually fully open up to that person you’re in a relationship with. Only you know you didn’t, you withheld. Even joy. I have people who I work with who are not just withholding and struggling in suppressing emotions like sadness or anger, they’re actually withholding joy too because when you get in that emotional habit of withholding, you’re withholding everything.

So it’s not just sadness, it’s joy too. And only you know what that is, but we have to believe there’s value and worth in taking that emotional risk. And so the flip side is you could get rejected. Your idea could get thrown down. You can look stupid and feel like a fool. So there is a risk. That’s why it’s saying it’s called risk. But if we are brave, no matter the outcome, I believe we will like who we are becoming.

And I think that’s what’s really important to people that they really do value is the person they are. I know sometimes we attach success with things we do, but at the end of the day, we have to look ourselves in the mirror. We’re the ones who have to lay down with ourselves that night. So when we actually value and appreciate ourselves, then regardless of the outcome, if we were brave that day, I think we’re going to like the journey we’re on.

John Jantsch (09:49.51)

So lot of works on habits or to talk about habits, you one of the core.

elements is really this idea of just do a little every day, know, get a little better every day, you know, kind of thing. How do you help people? Because I think, you know, do two more push ups a day is pretty tangible, As I have it. But it’s but you know what I mean? It’s a very tangible thing, right? But like, have a little more hope each day. How do you how do you help people kind of quantify or measure or keep the momentum going?

Julia (10:11.574)

Not for me.

Julia (10:24.118)

That’s one of the trickiest things in my industry is when you are working with feelings, quantifying is really hard. That kind of data is really hard. It’s a lot of feedback in order to get that quantitative and qualitative. But I would say the biggest thing, if you want to measure, I would say is actually don’t do that because this constant perform and get better and

John Jantsch (10:31.237)

Yeah.

Julia (10:48.494)

be better is not really what I’m saying. What I’m saying is instead of going outwards to achieve X, Y, and Z, let’s just get better at having a process to go inward. So it’s actually to me the opposite because the internal place, when that gets aligned with our values and a sense of worth, then the external things matter less. And we enjoy the journey a lot more and we can actually enjoy the relationships and the success that we’ve garnered.

John Jantsch (11:18.886)

So it’s almost a little counterintuitive. It’s like when they talk about meditation, it’s like you’re not going to get benefit of meditation if you’re trying to get benefit from meditation. So it’s kind of that.

Julia (11:27.982)

That’s exactly it, 100%. 100%. And I think we don’t always get to know ourselves, like who we were before we were overly stressed, before we had all this pressure on us, who we were before puberty, you all the things, like who were we? And like, let’s get to know that person, me, for all the pressures and the success and things like that. So I like to think about it as like, if we were, say, a pen on a desk and then pressure is the paper over us, and then expectations is another paper.

paper over us and it’s kind of just like a process of getting those off so that we can begin to write our story the way that feels aligned with who we really are.

John Jantsch (12:09.008)

So I know you do a lot of individual work with individuals, but you also, I know, work with some business leaders and teams. So how do you translate this into business speak, if you will? I know it’s the same concept, but when you go and work with a leader or with a team, how do you make this feel like a business thing instead of like psychology, so to speak?

Julia (12:22.295)

Yeah, no, definitely.

Julia (12:35.168)

Yeah, of course. mean, making it personal for sure. We all know what burnout does to our teams. We all know that turnover, how much that hurts our bottom line. We all know what it’s like to have someone we work with who we don’t want to work with and who we don’t like working with. And when we have these emotional habits of hope, it trains businesses to solve problems instead of just be on survival mode. helps us find a path forward collectively instead of

feeling like we’re going to collapse under stress. It helps improve actual business outcomes, team culture. And some of the ways that we can think about that is through, let’s say the habit number four is receiving. And that’s all about collaboration. It’s learning to actually listen, to learn, to adapt, to include, to participate. And habit number five that we spoke a little bit about earlier, how that translates really into effective business leading is contribution.

A lot of people are part of a culture and they are a part of a culture, but they’re consuming it they’re not contributing and creating it. Especially in your team workplace environment, you assume that so-and-so is the leader. So this is just what it is. But the more we can find ways to contribute, then we can make pass forward. And another thing about that is when we’re collaborating, which is number four, receiving, we’re allowing ourselves to be sparked with new ideas and innovation.

And to build that team place culture, which is really important because it’s really easy to get discouraged in the workplace to just be on autopilot mode. But when we create a culture of hope, what we’re doing is we’re fostering connectivity or foster with emotional risks, right? We’re, we’re fostering, a better workplace environment when other people are listening and also engaging and contributing. And when we’re all part of a collective goal and mission. so ultimately it’s.

It’s a way that we can move forward together instead of being on like that autopilot mode.

John Jantsch (14:37.862)

Do you have, when you work with, maybe with individuals or with teams as well, do you have exercises that you share or teach or give them to really reinforce? Yeah, well, not on me. I’m not gonna be emotionally, I’m not gonna be emotionally vulnerable.

Julia (14:47.986)

definitely. Do you want to do one right now? It’ll take just a couple of minutes. Let’s do it. No, we’ll do it together. We’ll do it with… No, it’s not. Don’t worry. We’re going to do it together. We’ll do it together. Okay. Let me see both of your hands. Grab both of your hands. Okay. I want you to think about all the things that are pressures, stressors, things that make you feel like you’re struggling. Okay. We’re going to think about them. You got some things in your mind? You don’t have to say them. But you do? Okay. That was a yes. Okay.

So now squeeze two fists really tightly. Now, if I were to come next to you and try and open your fist, I shouldn’t be able to, because that’s how hard you’re going to be squeezing. So if you’re listening right now and you would like to participate, what you do is you think of things that are just really stressing you out, things that you’re struggling with that you’re not opening up about, that you are just, you’re independent. You’ve got this. You’re going to figure this out. You are strong-willed. You are high-performing. You’ve got it. So I want you to just keep squeezing the fist. Is it getting exhausting yet? Keep doing it.

I have nails, so it gets to hurt. Just don’t hurt yourself, okay? If you’re bleeding or something, like, you can stop. But keep doing it. Now, if you’re doing this and I was like, okay, go about your day, but keep doing this, you’d probably figure it out, John. You’d probably, like, use your nose on your phone or use your elbows to pick things up. You would probably figure it out because you’re probably really independent, hardworking, resilient, all of those things. So if you’re listening, you’re probably going to figure out even how to drive with these two fists in your hand.

Because the thing is, we actually can do almost all the things that we’re up against. We can be really resilient. But on the count of three, when I say release, you’re going to let go. One, two, three, release. How does that feel? What’s the first word that comes to mind?

Julia (16:30.924)

Better. Because here’s the thing, the number one thing that I heard was the word release. So that really helped me form the emotional habit number three, which is release. Because what we do as human beings, we focus so much on being resilient and we associate resilience with isolation and independence that we hold so many things. That we hold it until it is holding us back. Because the thing is, John, you could do that all day, but you’re going to be restricted.

And when you open your hands, when you let go, when you have a process, a regular process to release, it will impact every single area of your life, personal, relational, professional, spiritual, you name it. It’s going to impact every single area of your life. But the temptation is to hold it all on yourself. So we have to get in the emotional habit of practicing release.

John Jantsch (17:22.214)

So I have practiced meditation for many, years and my favorite metaphor for meditation is that all those thoughts or those things that you hold, think of them as clouds and you can just like push them away. Little floating clouds.

Julia (17:33.934)

Mm.

Julia (17:39.148)

Now, mine is saying, I love that. I’m going to get you to get a surfboard and to ride a cloud, to not push it away, but to ride the cloud. Make it a slide, go down, you know, and to use something with it. Do something with the cloud.

John Jantsch (17:40.56)

Yeah.

John Jantsch (17:51.718)

Yeah.

Alright, so this is perfect point for this question. How do you distinguish between realistic and unrealistic hope that somebody might have?

Julia (18:05.371)

Yeah, the biggest thing, great question is when you think of the word hope, it doesn’t mean happy. And a lot of people think false positivity. That’s not what hope is. I actually think to replace that with instead of false positivity, it’s feelings processed. Because the first thing to hope is honesty. You cannot have hope if you ain’t honest with yourself. So being falsely positive, that’s not going to get us there.

John Jantsch (18:08.23)

you

Julia (18:30.818)

You don’t have to project happiness and you don’t have to have a ton of hope. You can have like a tiny, tiny, tiny little seed of it. And that’s enough to interject the negative thought cycles and to start rebuilding the neural pathways in our mind to reshape how we think and how we feel.

John Jantsch (18:49.062)

And I’ll end with letting you kind of bring this back full circle because there’s certainly a number of people have said it. think it was a former chief, army chief of staff that it’s mostly attributed to, but that hope is not a strategy. And I think what you’re doing is reinterpreting what that means.

Julia (19:09.762)

Yeah, hope is a feeling because that’s how we know it. That’s how we describe it. But it’s a habit. It’s something we can learn and unlearn. And if you felt hopeless before, there was a way you got to that hopelessness. So that means there’s a way back to it. There is a way to hope. And when you have hope and you pair that with being a leader or an innovator or a creative, what happens is you start to innovate more. You start to strategize better. You start to…

think through problems, you start to have expectations, you start to build culture that people can collaborate in and connect in, and you start to change the trajectory of what’s possible.

John Jantsch (19:54.552)

Awesome. On that note, Julia, I appreciate you dropping by the Duck Tape Marketing Podcast. Is there someplace you’d invite people to find out more about you, connect with you, certainly find out more about your work and the five habits of hope?

Julia (20:06.914)

Yes, I would absolutely love to connect with you on any of you can find me online, Dr. Julia Garcia. You can also get or gift the five habits of hope book. You can listen to it on audio. It’s available wherever books are sold and you can follow my podcast journey with Dr. J.

John Jantsch (20:24.614)

appreciate you stopping by Julia. Hopefully we’ll run into you one of these days out there on the road.

Julia (20:28.578)

Thank you so much.