Transcript of Why All Business Owners Should Become Authors

Transcript of Why All Business Owners Should Become Authors written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

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us-logoJohn Jantsch: Choosing the right domain name is critical to ensuring the success of your small business, but it’s got a little harder. But now you can choose a .us domain to help your business stand out, reserve your .us web address today, go to and use my promo code, podcast, for my special offer.

John Jantsch: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Dan Janal, he is a publicity and marketing expert and an author of about a dozen books, including the one we’re going to talk about today, Write Your Book In a Flash. So Dan, thanks for joining me.

Dan Janal: Hey John, pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me, John.

John Jantsch: So I find myself, my listeners are probably getting tired of this. I find myself reminiscing these days about the old days and the folks that have been doing this as long as I have. And I think you and I probably first bumped paths maybe close to 20 years ago around your service that I think still is around today called PR Leads. Do you remember that?

Dan Janal: Yeah, it still is and it’s still helping a lot of people. We have a lot more imitators now, which is fine. Every business has imitators and that’s cool. It proves the concept and it also forces me to be more creative in saying, “what else can I do to help more people?” And that’s why I decided to write my new book, which is called Write Your Book In a Flash.

John Jantsch: Yeah, we’re going to, we’re definitely going to talk about that. But let’s just first talk about books in general and writing books in general. I wrote my first, I don’t think I wrote my first book until 2006, so you wrote yours about 10 years before that maybe, on a topic that was just getting started, internet marketing. So what’s, for you, what’s changed about book writing? I mean it was hard, sort of slogging work back then and a lot of stuff’s come along that’s made it easier, hasn’t it?

Dan Janal: It sure has. You know, back then there was no such thing really as self publishing. It was a big, if you were self publishing, it was very long, expensive, difficult. Today many books are self published and it’s pretty easy. You just write your book, show your book around to a few other people to get some thoughts and feedback as well, but the actual printing process is pretty easy. You go to Kindle Direct Publishing, which is part of Amazon, and you upload your book and bingo, you’re in business. You know, you hire an artist on Fiverr to do a cover for you. Maybe a hire someone on Fiverr to lay out the book for you so it looks a little bit better than what Word can do, and your business.

Dan Janal: When I self published my first book, which was early in 1991, it cost thousands and thousands of dollars. And then when my first commercially published book was done, the book you’re referring to, The Online Marketing Handbook, which was one of the first books about marketing on the Internet 25 years ago, a traditional publisher handled that and it cost them thousands and thousands of dollars for proofreading and copy editing and publishing and printing and distribution and warehouse and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, anyone can write a book really fast, get it online and start making money and helping people.

John Jantsch: So here’s a question I do get a lot since you talked about self publish versus the traditional publisher. Is there, I mean, is there one way that you should go? Is there one better than another? Do they have pros and cons? I’m curious how you answer that when people ask you that.

Dan Janal: Sure. We could take about an hour answering it, but here’s a short answer. If, you can build your house yourself or you could hire a general contractor. [inaudible] yourself, a lot of money, it’ll be done a lot faster, but you have to shoulder all the burdens yourself, the copy editing, the proofreading, the layout, the ISBN numbers, loading it to Amazon, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You can do all that and you can do it really, really fast. So if your purpose is to get your book out fast, have a big business card for yourself to help you stand out from everyone else, then self publishing is definitely the way to go.

Dan Janal: If you are so lucky as to get an offer from a publisher who wanted to print your book and publish your book, it will probably take them about two years to get it into their production cycle. So if you want to make an impact fast, self publishing is still the way to go. And if you’re very successful at it, you will attract a publisher who will put it into their publication cycle.

John Jantsch: Yeah, I mean, just for context, I’m just finishing up or just finished, turned in my manuscript for my sixth book and I signed the contract for that book last July. I turned it in May 1st and it’s going to drop October 22nd. So that’s a real, today, timeline still for the traditional publisher.

Dan Janal: Right. That’s not bad. Six months is not bad. And if they publish it then they’re shouldering the costs of printing, proofreading, copy editing and all the other good things. So all you have to do is be brilliant, which is good.

John Jantsch: Well, you know, I’m a sure thing Dan, so that’s why they had no problem with that. So here’s the big question then of course, and it used to be people would sit around in literary rooms and think, “huh, not everybody should write a book,” but you’re suggesting that every business owner, let’s stay in that category because that’s who my listeners are generally, would you go as far as saying every business owner should have or at least think about a book?

Dan Janal: Definitely. I just worked with one of my clients who owns a HVAC company in Ohio and he wanted a book to stand out from the crowd. And it’s a really good book and it’s a book that can make him stand out from all the other competitors who have good jobs, good recommendations, and everyone on this call has the same thing. We’ve all gone to good schools, we all have good clients, we all have good recommendations, so how is a prospect to separate one from another? It might be because you’re the person who wrote a book. And a person who writes a book is an expert. They’re the acknowledged expert.

Dan Janal: And if you give your book away at a networking meeting or a breakfast meeting or you are more proactive and send it out to your top five prospects, they all keep the book forever. It’ll be on their bookshelves. It’ll stand as a silent sales person for you for a long time until they’re ready to say, “you know, I need a new HVAC system. I know there, I met a guy at a networking session, he wrote a book, it had an orange cover, let me see. Oh, there it is!” You know, and bingo, you get the job. So that’s why every business person needs a book, to stand out from the crowd.

John Jantsch: Yeah, I’m glad you used HVAC as an example because I think it’s getting harder and harder to stand out as a marketing consultant with a book. You know, there are a lot of fields that are pretty crowded with that. But the real opportunity is in those industries where people go, “no HVAC contractor has a book. That’s stupid.” I mean that’s the real opportunity, isn’t it?

Dan Janal: It is. And you’re right in saying that for a marketing consultant or a coach or lots of other businesses, everyone has a book. So if you don’t have a book, then you are not even at the starting gate, you’re not to be taken seriously because everyone else does have that entry level requirement of a book.

John Jantsch: So let’s just stay on the HVAC person. Just for grins. You know, I work with HVAC folks and trying to get them to even give me an idea for a blog post sometimes is hard. I mean, how do you coach people, again, I know the answer is obvious, but a lot of people don’t get this. I mean, how do you coach people on the fact that they do have the information? There’s stuff that they know that people would want to write about. I mean, how do you get that out of them?

Dan Janal: Sure. There are a couple of ways. First you have to realize the only reason someone will buy a book, any book, or read a book, any book, is because they have a problem and they need to solve it. So you should survey your prospects and say, “what is your biggest problem?” And then you have eight chapters that talk about those eight problems and you show them that you are the trusted leader who’s been there and done that, who can take them from mess to success because you’ve done that and you’ve proven that with your book.

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John Jantsch: How far do you think a book like that, you know, they’re not angling for the New York Times bestseller list, I mean, as you called it, it’s a great business card. It’s a marketing brochure almost. So how far does a person that writes a book with that objective in mind go in terms of selling what they do? I mean, is it, you know, do you educate, educate, educate, and you hope they call you? Or do you educate and then say, “call me.”

Dan Janal: You do you do both. You educate, but people are suddenly learning that they know, like, and trust you. And the last chapter can very much be a call to action that says, “okay, if you need my help, here’s how I help people.” You can even have one sheets that are advertisements in the back of the book that are real direct calls to action, like a page on your website so people can take action. Because you know, think about it. If you’re a reader, you don’t know that the author is actually doing the work. They think that the author is a writer. They don’t know that they’re actually the provider of those services. They don’t make logical connection. You do. I do. We think they do. They don’t.

Dan Janal: So you have to tell them that, yes, you can install their heating system. Yes, you can install swimming pools, you can be their dentist. So yeah, yeah, you have to be overt. But during the writing of the book, you can subtly pepper your stores by saying, “when I consulted with this company,” or “when I installed this deck for, in this subdivision, blah, blah, blah,” then people will say, “oh yeah, he installs decks in subdivisions.” So there are ways to do it that are subtle and effective.

John Jantsch: So if I’m sitting out there thinking, “okay, this sounds like a good idea, but like what’s involved in this?” I mean, what are the steps really that somebody needs to at least count on either doing themselves or hiring somebody to do?

Dan Janal: Well, those are two great options. And I do work with people who don’t have the time or energy or ability to write books themselves and we can walk through that process. But for someone who would like to do it themselves, some people like to write and some people don’t like to write. If you don’t like to write, don’t turn off this podcast because you can dictate your book. In fact, you may be doing 20 minute sessions at the Rotary Club talking about how to choose the dentist, or what’s [inaudible] in building your deck, or hiring a realtor, or selling your home, or all those other ideas. Well record that and then give it to a transcriber who have to their automated transcription services on the Internet now, and then give it to an editor and they’ll turn it into readable material for you.

Dan Janal: But really think about the eight problems that your potential audience has, and those become the eight chapters in your book. The first chapter is an overview chapter that tells your story, who you are, the struggles you’ve had, how you came to be a success in the field you are today, and what people are going to learn by reading this book. Then you use the eight problems that you’re solving, and then the last chapter is the call to action chapter. That’s it, 10 chapters, 20,000 words, 2000 words per chapter. It’s like a very long blog post. Anyone can do this.

John Jantsch: Yeah, I love that you say that about recording too because for some people that’s just a lot easier in terms of them formulating their thoughts. But I’ll tell you, I can talk 150 words a minute. I can type 45, 50 on a good day. So it’s just a lot faster. And I would be remiss if I didn’t note that one of our sponsors of our show is which is an awesome transcription service. Alright, you call yourself a book coach, or at least that’s one of your titles. What does a book coach actually do to help somebody get a book written?

Dan Janal: We do a number of great things were a cheerleader, we’re an accountability partner, and we’re also an editor. So the coaching service can help you write the outline, write your marketing materials, get you focused on what your book should be about when you hit those inevitable dips, as we all do for writer’s block and whatever. Then the coach acts as your cheerleader, your accountability partner to get you back in the groove. And they also give you feedback on your writing and any other questions you have about the publishing industry.

Dan Janal: There’s also something called a content development editor, which is something I did for the HVAC guy cause he only wrote [inaudible] and his copy editor said, “you know, you really need to show this to a developmental editor.” And what she meant by that was, “you told the same story three times in three different chapters. You told this story and it really didn’t make the point that you thought it would make, you know the whole chapter on this topic, but your stories really don’t mash and you need more information. You make these assertions, but you need statistics.”

Dan Janal: So they, they act as your editor and your friend to guide you in the right direction saying, “you know, here’s what your book really needs.” So some developmental editors just give a review of a first draft and say, chapter by chapter, “here’s what’s good, here’s what needs work.” And they’re done with it. Other developmental editors actually work with you more hand in hand and they do that first overview, but then they work with you to make sure that you bring it up to that level that is expected to make it a professional book. And of course most people are aware of proofreaders and copy editors and that’s the lower level work, to be honest, because that’s the nitty gritty and they’re looking for typos and grammar and punctuation and all that stuff. That’s the very last thing you need to do.

John Jantsch: Yeah, they don’t care what you said just as long as you said it right. It’s going to have a look at that.

Dan Janal: Exactly. As long as there’s a period at the end of the sentence, they’re happy.

John Jantsch: Yeah. And that’s, what you just described, is pretty typical of the traditional publishing model. You know, you have that overarching person that wants to make sure the narrative runs through the book in the right way and that the reader gets kind of the impact delivered and then you’ve got that person looking for inconsistencies throughout. And then you’ve got, as you said, the person that’s looking for typos and commas and semicolons. So it really, a lot of people underestimate how much editing, I suppose, goes into a well written book.

Dan Janal: It really does take a village to write a book because if you write a book by yourself, it could be good, but two heads are better than one. So having someone look over your shoulder and say, “hey, you did this, the story goes on too long,” or “you don’t have enough stories,” or “you need statistics to back up your claims here,” or “you have too many statistics, you’re going to bore people to death!” You lose perspective, and that’s where the developmental editor comes in and saves your butt.

John Jantsch: So a really favorite headline it seems of the Internet marketing folks is to say, “I’m going to reveal the number one secret that nobody in the industry wants you to know,” that’s like a hook to really bring people in. So what’s the number one secret that book authors don’t want you to know?

Dan Janal:  Well, book authors want you to know everything and that may be the problem. No one wants to read the encyclopedia about your topic. Today’s reader wants to pick up a book when they get on a plane in New York and finish it by the time they land in Los Angeles, if not before. So books are getting smaller, easier to read, a lot of cartoons, images, things that make the world just easier to understand. So I think a big problem that a lot of people have when they sit down to write a book is they think, “well I have to cover everything about this industry,” and the answer really is no. It goes back to those eight problems that your prospects have. So they come to know, like, and trust you, so they want to hire you.

John Jantsch: So in the title of your book, which is Write Your Book In a Flash, I want to just get a sense, if I’m listening, what’s ‘a flash’ mean? I mean, if I’ve got the book and I’ve got a reasonable, you know, handle on what the topics should be and whatnot, what’s in a flash? From the time I maybe contact you, or from the time that I start writing to the whole publishing, out there, people can buy it now.

Dan Janal: Great question. It’s different for different people because the number one question that I get on my forums is, “I don’t have time to write a book. I have kids, I have work, I this, I that, blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” I think if you have 15 minutes a day to write a book, you can write a book in four months. Because in 15 minutes a day you can write about 250 words. So four days you have a thousand words. You need 20,000 words for a book. Do the math yourself. If you can carve out 15 minutes a day by waking up earlier, by going to sleep later, by taking 15 minutes off of your lunch hour, by not watching television for 15 minutes, any of those things, you can write a book in three to four months.

Dan Janal: And if I were your coach, same thing. It can be done that fast. Cause again, books only need to be about 20,000 to 25,000 words. So it’s a whole different world today than when Good to Great was being published, which is way more words. So you can get by with doing less and have more impact.

John Jantsch: Well, and I think a lot of people underestimate. There are very few people sitting around in their robe, you know, writing books. I mean most people write books when they’re done with their day job. So most of the books that you see out there are written in that fashion. They’re not people sitting around writing books for four months in their writing cabin in the mountains. So where can people find out more about not only Write Your Book In a Flash, but about the work that you’re doing? Where would you send people?

Dan Janal: Thank you. I believe in consistent branding. So Write Your Book In a Flash is the name of my book, it’s the name of my website, it’s the name of my Facebook page, it’s the name my YouTube channel where I have lots of questions from people and we answer them through YouTube. So will take you to all of those places.

John Jantsch: Awesome. Dan, thanks for stopping by. You’re still in the Minneapolis area, is that right?

Dan Janal: Yes, I am.

John Jantsch: Awesome. Well, it was great catching up with you and a really important topic. Everybody should write a book and they should write it in a flash. I think that sounds awesome. So hopefully we’ll bump into, you won’t be 10 years or so before the next time we chat.

Dan Janal: That’ll be great. Thank you very much for the opportunity. I appreciate [inaudible] helping your listeners.

Why All Business Owners Should Become Authors

Why All Business Owners Should Become Authors written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Marketing Podcast with Dan Janal
Podcast Transcript

Today’s guest on the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is author, speaker, and book coach Dan Janal.

He is an expert in internet marketing and publicity, and wrote one of the first books on the subject more than 25 years ago. He has written 13 best-selling books over the years, and is an internationally-recognized speaker on the topic of internet marketing.

Janal also serves as president of, where he helps small businesses establish themselves as thought leaders in their fields to generate more business. This is the very concept that he discusses in his latest book Write Your Book in a Flash: The Paint-By-Numbers System to Write the Book of Your Dreams—Fast!

On today’s episode, we discuss how writing a book can help you to stand out in your industry, and why it’s easier than ever for anyone to write a book today.

Questions I ask Dan Janal:

  • What are the pros and cons to self publishing?
  • What are the steps to writing your own book?
  • How can you write a book if you’re not a good writer or are short on free time?

What you’ll learn if you give a listen:

  • Why identifying your customers’ biggest problem will help you settle on a topic for your book.
  • How to find the right balance between educating and selling in your book.
  • How a book coach can help you to get your book written.

Key takeaways from the episode and more about Dan Janal:

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!


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Transcript of How to Give a Great Business Presentation

Transcript of How to Give a Great Business Presentation written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

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John Jantsch: Hey, this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by We do all of our transcriptions here on the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast and using, and I’m going to give you a special offer in just a bit.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch and my guest today is Michael Port. He is an actor, speaker, trainer, and author. Of course, many of you know his book, Book Yourself Solid, his more recent Steal the Show, and he’s also the co-founder of Heroic Public Speaking, an organization that is really, I think, revolutionizing the training of public speakers and presenters. So Michael, thanks for joining me.

Michael Port: You are very welcome. Thank you for having me.

John Jantsch: So, I always like to start with a hard question. You train a lot of public speakers, so what’s the one thing that you have to work on almost everyone?

Michael Port: There isn’t one thing, unfortunately, I wish … if there was just one thing I needed to work on for everybody, that would be great. But I would say this: if I was going to give you one of my top choices, I would say staging, meaning where you go on stage, when you go there, and why you go there. Because what we see in presenters, generally, is one of two things. Either they’re pacing back and forth like a caged animal, and they’re wearing a path in the rug, or they just stand in one place frozen like a deer in the headlights. And one of the things that is difficult for an audience is the sameness. So, audiences often are most compelled by contrast, changes, things that are different. If you went to listen to Yo-Yo Ma play the cello, arguably our generation’s greatest cellist, and he played the most beautiful note in the world, but then he played it for three hours, just that one note, you’d run screaming out of the theater.

Michael Port: And so if the audience is forced to watch you pace back and forth for the length of your speech, they’re going to start getting lulled into sameness. And no matter what you’re saying, even if what you’re saying is different, it’s going to start to seem the same because what you’re doing with your body is the same. And the same thing is true for if you’re just stuck in one place, like a deer in the headlights, everything that comes out of your mouth will seem similar because your physicality is similar.

Michael Port: So, when we do surveys with the people that we work with, and we work with entrepreneurs who want to book more business through speaking because they know it is such a phenomenal way of advancing their brand and demonstrating credibility, and we work with professional speakers and people who are on that track, and of course we work with executives, professionals inside organizations who know that their ability to communicate is one of the major factors in their advancement inside that organization up into higher levels of leadership. And when we ask people, no matter how much experience they have, no matter which category they’re in, how they feel about their skill with respect to moving on stage, or if they’re in front of a big conference table, or even just a group of 20 people, they always score themselves the lowest across the board. So, that’s generally where we’re able to make the biggest impact, the fastest, so that the audience is getting a visual experience of the material from the speaker, not just an intellectual experience.

John Jantsch: Yeah, and I think most people … well, not everyone does this, but I think most people would say that the big job is to create the content, is to have your ideas concise, and make your point. But I think people probably terribly underestimate the performance aspect of even that conference room presentation. Is that something that … I know it’s because I know you’re training. I know that’s something you work with, but is that something that has to be an intentional part, you believe, for a presentation to be better, that physicality as you call it, has to be an intentional part that’s built in just like the words?

Michael Port: I do. And I think that the word performance or performing can be provocative because if you don’t see yourself as a performer, you may think that a performer is inauthentic, or that performance is inauthentic. And in fact, that’s not the case. What we see in the best performers in the world are the most honest performers, meaning they bring honesty to the stage. But of course, there is such a big focus on authenticity, but authenticity is something that actually can be problematic because, let’s say you are going to give a presentation and you’re sick, and you’re exhausted, and you missed … three planes were canceled on the way there and you haven’t slept in the last day. Well, the last thing you might want to do, actually, is give that presentation. So, if you’re completely authentic, you might walk on in front of the group and say, “Listen, I’m really pissed off that I’m here, I’m sick, I’m tired. I don’t really want to do this, but you know what, I got to do this cause I know it’s good for my business or my boss sent me here to talk to you. So, I’ll just push through it, and then I can’t wait to be done, go get a drink, and go to sleep.” That’s completely authentic. But that’s not necessarily what you’re there to do. And I would venture to say that most people would never, never start a presentation like that.

Michael Port: So, we are always performing in one way, shape, or form if we are trying to get people to think differently, feel differently, or act differently. And the reason that we’re performing is because, in order to get people to think differently, feel differently, and act differently, then we need to make very conscious choices about the actions we’re playing, how we want them to feel, what we want them to do, what we want them to think. And anytime you’re making those conscious choices, you are performing. And so even if you’re trying to get your kid to calm down because they are six years old and they’re throwing a tantrum because they want something that you’re not going to give them, like cotton candy, well you’re going to get really, really clear on what you’re trying to accomplish. If you know what you’re trying to accomplish, then you’re going to choose tactics that you believe will help you accomplish that objective when you speaking to your child.

Michael Port: And so we do this regularly throughout our daily lives. And if we are asked to make a presentation, or we ask to make a presentation, then I think it stands to reason that we would be well served by spending even more time focusing on our objectives, our super objectives for the overall presentation, and then our minute by minute by minute by minute sub objectives as we’re moving through all of that content, and making sure we’re very, very clear on how we want them to feel, what we want them to do, and what we want them to think. And then we’re going to play actions, and make choices, and use different tactics to accomplish those objectives.

John Jantsch: It all sounds like a lot of work. I think I would just give him the damn cotton candy.

Michael Port: Now, I know you as a father, I’ve met some of your daughters. There is no way you are the “I’ll just give you the cotton candy” type of dad, because you had higher expectations for your kids than that. And of course, we’ve all just given in and said, “Here, eat the damn cotton candy because I need to sit down. I can’t take it.” But for the most part, when you have high expectations for the people around you, you’re going to do the work that is required to lean into those expectations. And the amount of work that you put into a presentation, I think, should be directly proportionate to the stakes of the presentation. So, if the stakes are not very high, if you’re going to give a five minute presentation to your kid’s sixth grade class, you could probably go in there and wing that. But if you’re asked to give a 60 minute presentation to people who could have extraordinary influence over your future, the stakes are going to be higher. And to me, I would want to work more on something that has very high stakes.

Michael Port: So yeah, I think there is a lot of work that goes into producing something that is world class or best in class, and if that’s important to you then you’re going to do that kind of work. So, I don’t shy away from the fact that it does take a lot of work, I think, to be really, really quite effective as a performer. And I think one of the reasons that we don’t think it takes that much work is because we speak all the time, and often the things we’re talking about when we give a presentation are things that we’re used to talking about, sitting at a table one on one with somebody or just chatting in the hallway. But just because we have experience with something, doesn’t mean that we are able to present it in speech format to a large group of people in a way that’s going to be extremely compelling.

Michael Port: So, we work, as I said, with people from all different industries and all different levels and we’ll often work with folks who come out of very, very high positions at big name marquee type companies. So, they have extraordinary expertise in their particular area and they have a personal brand reputation that is really impressive, in part because of the work they did at these companies in the past. And so, because they feel that they are experts, they feel like they should just be able to talk to the audience just for 60 minutes and the audience is going to get so much value from it.

Michael Port: But the fact of the matter is, when you have expertise in something, you’ve often forgotten more about that particular topic than most people in the audience know. And so, because so much of it is so intuitive to experts, they often leave really big gaps in their material that they assume the audience can fill, but in fact the audience has trouble filling. Or they make the material overly complicated because they’re so interested in all of the nuances of all of that material. And to them it all makes sense, but without the same kind of context that they have, it’s harder for the audience, even if they’re sophisticated, intelligent, experienced folks. Sometimes it’s just not enough. So, it tends to take a lot more work to produce a really great speech than I think people realize.

Michael Port: And then one other thing I want to say about this is sometimes people push back and they say, “Well, I don’t really want to do rehearsal on a speech because I’ve tried it in the past and it doesn’t work. It makes me stiff, or I feel slower, stodgy, I just don’t feel like I’m on my game.” And that is an absolutely accurate assessment of their experience. I’ve seen this over and over and over again. And the reason that they felt stiff or like they were off their game is not because they did rehearsal, it’s because they only did a little bit of rehearsal. Because when you do a little bit of rehearsal, generally what happens when you’re trying to present, instead of being in the moment, you’re trying to recall what you had worked on in rehearsal and repeat it. But what happens is you’re now in two different places, and what great performers do is they know their material so well that they can completely forget it before they walk on stage and allow it to come to them in the moment, so that, to the audience, it feels like it’s the first time it’s ever being shared or delivered and it feels relevant and spontaneous.

Michael Port: But you get that spontaneity when you are able to mix both preparation and improvisation, but just winging it is not improvisation. Just winging it is just making it up as you go. And I know we think that if we get into a high state where we have a lot of adrenaline pumping, that we think we’ll rise to the occasion, but the military tells us that we usually don’t rise to the occasion. We fall back on our training, because when the stakes are high, and when adrenaline is pumping, when things are moving fast, then in order to be able to deliver what’s needed in that moment, it’s got to be in your bones. If we have to think too hard, then we tend to feel slow, stiff, and out of step.

Michael Port: Just like if you said, “Listen, Michael, I’m going to … I need some help fighting in Syria right now. I know you don’t have military training, you don’t know how to use the comms. Actually, you don’t even know how to use most of the weapons that we’ll use. I know you’ve never done any kind of training whatsoever, but I’m sure you’ll rise to the occasion as soon as we put you in the firefight.” Oh, I’m going to die. It just … I’m going to be dead, and the stakes are higher there because it’s life or death. On the stage, it’s not life or death. So, you feel, “Okay, well if I don’t kill it, well I’m not going to die.”

Michael Port: But you probably are missing some extraordinary opportunities because if you’re an entrepreneur … look, there are some core self promotion strategies. There’s networking, direct outreach, referral strategies, there are web strategies, there are writing strategies, and of course there are speaking strategies. And there are few strategies that give you more credibility than being given some sort of platform from which to speak. And if you’re given a platform from which to speak, I think it is a great honor. And so if you’ve got 50 people in the room and you take an hour, well that’s 50 hours of time that someone has given you. And to me, there’s a great responsibility. I have an enormous amount of reverence for that stage, for that platform, and for the people in the room. And if our job is to focus entirely on serving those people, helping them, not just looking good ourselves, but focusing on producing results for the people in the room by solving their problems, actually, public speaking gets a lot easier, because you’re not as self absorbed herself to centered. The self absorption and the self centeredness is what produces the anxiety, but if you’re not focused on yourself and you’re focused on solving their problems and helping them produce results, you tend to be actually much more relaxed.

John Jantsch: This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by There are so many ridiculously valuable reasons to order transcriptions. You can write entire blog posts. Heck, you could write an entire book by just speaking it and having rev put together a transcript that you can then just bring on home. I mean, if you want to record a meeting so that you have notes, again over and over, there are so many good reasons. If you just want to take notes when you’re listening to something and you just want to record those notes and get it, it’s amazing what the reasons you can find for doing this, and Rev gets those transcripts. As I said, they do our podcast, they get those transcripts back to you lightning fast, and I’m going to give you a free trial offer. If you go to, and that’ll be in the show notes too, but you’re going to get a hundred dollar coupon to try them out, and I suggest you do it.

John Jantsch: Yeah, I think that in my speaking, that was a huge moment for me was to realize what am I here to give as opposed to how am I here to entertain them? Especially in … I built my entire business, I tell people this all the time and I trained consultants on this all the time, doing what I call speaking for leads. And because you’re absolutely right. For a consultant, a professional service provider, I mean really just about any industry, it’s probably the most potent way to kind of move somebody from knowing you, to them liking you, to them trusting you, to sort of trying you because they’ve now seen what it’s going to be like to work with you. So, it’s like you move that customer journey so fast with with this tactic.

Michael Port: That’s right. And you know John, the expectations for speakers differ. So, if you are going to present to a group of 30 people at a business networking event or a Chamber of Commerce, or some other place where your target market is gathered, well they may not expect you to come in and have them rolling in their seats. They’re expecting you to solve their business problems as they relate to your expertise, and their immediate needs. But if you want to be a $30,000 professional speaker speaking at big conferences where your job is to set the key … strike the keynote for 5,000 people in the room, well then the expectations are going to be different. And there will be a higher level of entertainment value expected.

Michael Port: Now, if entertainment value is not expected, but you can still deliver it, well then you really stand out. So, if you can solve their problems, if you can deliver exceptional transformational experiences for them because you’re offering them solutions to things that really frustrate them and challenge them, and you can entertain them at the same time, well then you’re in a league of your own, especially in those environments where the entertainment value expectations are actually low.

Michael Port:  And look, give yourself some credit because you’re pretty darn entertaining. You really are. You’re witty, your sense of humor is dry, and you, I think, are fully self expressed when you’re presenting and you do it in your way. And that’s what’s so important. There is no one style that works for presenting. And any time you try to present like someone else, you’re setting yourself up for failure because you will never be like somebody else. And if you focus on amplifying the most compelling parts of your personality as it relates, again, to solving the problems for the people that you serve who are in the room at that time, well then you can create a style that you feel very comfortable with and really, really shows off your personality. Because there are no expectations with respect to how you’re supposed to be as a presenter. What they’re evaluating is, “Did this person help solve my problems? And do I feel like I can produce a better result because I heard them? And did I enjoy myself while I did it?” If you’ve got those three things, you’re good to go.

John Jantsch: Let’s … because we have been focusing a little bit on winning more business and not necessarily wowing 50,000 people, because the bulk of people will never have that experience. I mean, they’ll sit across the table, they’ll try to convince somebody to buy from them. When creating presentations that are maybe primarily to get business, like I talked about my speaking for leads, what do you find the best way? Because I think this is … sometimes people can have great information and then they get to that call to action part, and they sort of stumble. It either comes out inauthentic or they don’t really get across what they’re trying to say. I mean, what’s the key to writing effective … if we are trying to get business from that talk, what’s the key to writing effective or presenting an effective call to action?

Michael Port: So, let’s back it up a little bit because as you know, the closing techniques that someone uses in say, a sales conversation are often not the things that made the sale or lost the sale. The sale is usually made much earlier on in the relationship. Earlier in the pipeline is when you’ve won or you’ve lost. But sometimes we associate something we did at the end and say, “Well, that’s why I won the business.” And of course there are certainly some tactics that are more effective than others when it comes to actually asking for the business. But if we back it up a little bit and we focus on, “Alright, well how would we … if we’re just doing a short presentation, how would we structure it? What’s important?” Well, there are five elements that we see exist in every good presentation, and I stay away from absolutes, but in this case you can find these five elements in one way, shape, or form in great presentations that you see.

Michael Port: Now, they’re not the only five elements that you’ll have in a presentation, but it’s a great way to start. And very often when we work with individuals who are promoting their businesses through speaking, or if we’re going into large organizations and we’re working with sales teams or anybody else that is out in the world presenting that brand, we’ll work them through what’s called the foundational five. And the foundational five is five elements that, if we are really clear on, then we can make this pitch, this presentation in almost any way, shape, or form in three minutes, or 30 minutes, or three hours. It doesn’t really matter because those are elements that we hit and we can expand or contract them based on the length of time that we have.

Michael Port: So number one, we need a big idea. We need a big idea. And a big idea doesn’t need to be different to make a difference, but it needs to be true for the people in the room, and it needs to be relevant for the people in the room, and interesting to the people in the room. So, what’s a big idea? Well, if I think about a Duct Tape Marketing. To me, Duct Tape Marketing is a big idea because … and I’m not an expert in Duct Tape Marketing, but I know the brand from seeing it out in the world. And I would say this, and you could tell me if I nailed this or if I’m off. I would say that this: most marketing education, seems to me, focused primarily on tactics, but tactics that are ad hoc, often disparate. And what happens is the entrepreneur is fed so many different lines of thinking that they don’t know what to do with it all because there’s no context around it. But what you’ve done with Duct Tape Marketing is you’ve created a system so that any entrepreneur can plug that system into their process, and then they have a repeatable system for booking more business. So, you’ve taken a very systematic approach to it. To me, that’s a big idea. Did I get that? Am I right?

John Jantsch: Of course. I mean, you just wrote my brochure.

Michael Port: Perfect. So, that’s a big idea, and that’s something that people will resonate with. They’ll go, “Yeah, man, I really, I just read a marketing book and it just was idea after idea after idea, I don’t even know what to do with these things. And then this guy’s saying, well no, there’s a systematic approach to it.” So, if you’re somebody who likes organization and structure and order, well now you’ve got something that you can really, really hold on to and use for the rest of your life, your career.

Michael Port: So, that’s a big idea. Then there’s a promise. Each speech has some sort of promise. Each presentation has a promise. So. What’s the promise that you’re making to the people in the room? Because the big idea is a way of seeing the world that if they adopt, will be one of the reasons they’re able to achieve the promise. And so in order for them to get this promise, they got to buy into the big idea. And our job is to demonstrate that this big idea is something that’s relevant to them, it’s interesting to them, and will produce return for them. So, if the promise is, “Well, you’re going to have more clients than your heart desires. You’re going to have as much business as you could possibly handle.” Well, that’s a promise that I think most entrepreneurs that you work with, they want … if someone can make them that promise, they say, “This fantastic. That’s what I want.” So people … if they listen to your presentation, and they buy into the big idea, and they go and implement it, that’s what should happen. So, that’s pretty straightforward.

Michael Port: Now, there are three more elements. Element number three is being able to demonstrate that you understand the way the world looks to the people in the room.

John Jantsch: I’m going to interrupt you. I thought you were going to tell me, but you have to buy the book to get the three adenoids, so …

Michael Port: That’s funny. No, that’s exactly the problem with most speeches is they don’t actually deliver. They just say, here’s a little tease and then that’s it. But I think if you say you’re going to do something you have to do it. It’s one of the things we see happens in speeches. They’ll say, “Okay, so there are five elements to, X, Y and Z.” Then they do three and they go, “Oh shucks, I only had time for three. Too bad. But you know what? In the back of the room you can buy …” And that’s not how Duct Tape Marketing folks do business.

Michael Port: So, the third element is being able to demonstrate that you understand the way the world looks to the people in the room. Because when you have the platform and you’re an expert, it’s the … you’re asking them often provocative questions and you’re sometimes asking them to challenge themselves to do things differently, which means they’ve got to do some work. And some of that work may be uncomfortable, either because it’s time consuming or because it means they have to change something. And if they distance themselves from you because they don’t think you understand them, even if your big idea is interesting and relevant to them, and even if the promise that you’re making is something that they want, they may opt to say, “You know what? He doesn’t really get me or she doesn’t really understand me and my business is different. Whatever they’re talking about, I mean, it probably works, but it’s not really for me.” And then they can get out of doing that work. But if they feel that you’re just knocking one pin down after another, where they say, “Oh my god. Yep, that’s me. Yep, that’s me. Yep, that’s me. Yep, that’s me. Yep, that’s me,” then they see that you really understand the way the world looks to them and they’re more likely to listen to you.

Michael Port: The fourth element is being able to demonstrate, illustrate, articulate the consequences of not adopting the big idea, the consequences of not fulfilling this promise. And often, as you know, people are more motivated to move forward when they’re trying to move away from something, something that hurts. You’re going to move your hand away from fire much more quickly then you’ll pull it out of just sort of lukewarm water. So, we want to make sure that we don’t skip over those consequences because we think that they already know what they are. We want to stoke the fire there. We want to push the buttons a little bit more.

Michael Port: And then the fifth element is being able to demonstrate, illustrate, articulate the rewards of adopting this worldview, seeing the world differently, adopting this big idea, achieving this promise, because that’s where they want to go. So, there are, of course, financial rewards, there are spiritual rewards, there are physical rewards, there are emotional rewards. And if you know your audience really well, then you’ll know which rewards are most exciting to them that are going to get them the most stimulated.

Michael Port: Now, with that said, then the next question is, “Well, you did all of this, they love it. How do you move the conversation forward? How do you continue it?” And there are certainly lots of different ways to do it, but when I was doing those kinds of speeches earlier on in my career, I didn’t like the idea of making any kind of hard sell, because at that point, I wasn’t well known. It’s very different when you walk into a room and they already know you, they’ve already read your books. It’s a very different dynamic. If Oprah walks into a room and says, “Listen, lie down on the floor and act like bacon,” you’d be like, “Alright, sounds like a great idea.” But you know Oprah and you trust her and you think, “Well, she’s asking me to do this for a good reason.”

Michael Port: But if the people in the audience don’t know you, well, do you have enough trust to make sales offers? Because it seems to me that sales offers should be proportionate to the amount of trust that we’ve earned. And so I, when giving a short presentation, 20 minute presentation to say, a Chamber in 2003 when nobody knew who I was, I didn’t feel comfortable saying, “Okay, great. Now, you’ve got to hire me.” So, what I did instead was say, “Listen, every week I do this thing,” and I had a name for it, “and each week I would bring a different topic that relates to you, and the specific issues that you face on a regular basis. And then we, we address it, we discuss it, and it’s free and it always will be. And I don’t sell anything there. And if you love it, you’ll keep coming back. And if you can come next Monday, you’ll come. If not, you’ll come the following Monday, it’ll be there for you. And if you don’t like it, then you won’t come back again but didn’t cost you anything. And here’s how you can sign up for it.”

Michael Port: And that one strategy for me produced 85% of all business that I booked because, of course, once they’re into that environment, now you’re developing really deep relationships with them and they are starting to raise their hand and say, “Hey listen, I’d like to talk to you about working with you.” Because of course they know what you do, and if they think you have the solutions to their problems, they’re going to be looking at your offers. And if you’re in regular communication with them, then you’re continuing to nurture that relationship and make offers as is appropriate based on the amount of trust you’ve earned. So, the more trust you earn, the bigger the offers are that you can make. And so I did it in that form, because it made sense for me, given the kind of work that I did, but it doesn’t have to be in a weekly conference call or a weekly livestream. It could be something that you do one on one really, really simple just with an individual at a time, 20 minutes at a time. So- [crosstalk]

John Jantsch: And obviously that’s a bigger investment of time on your part. But I think it sends such a signal that you’re in this for the long haul. You’re not just trying to sell me something and be done. Obviously once I get to know you, I’m probably going to pay a lot more money, than I might have at that event. So, it- [crosstalk]

Michael Port: No, I mean, that’s exactly right. I mean, we’re always looking at the lifetime value of somebody that we serve. If you’re just a sort of a, like, “Okay, let me just try to get a quick thing here, quick thing there, quick thing there,” that’s one way of building a business, but it’s not particularly satisfying, at least to me longterm. And I don’t think it’s particularly meaningful to the people that we serve. And I think you make an extraordinarily important point because if you … if part of the reason that you’re on a platform presenting yourself is because you’re trying to demonstrate credibility and earn credibility and earn, I think, is really the operative word, we can’t just … we’re not entitled to credibility because of something we’ve done. We have to continue to earn it and every new person we meet, we’ve got to earn it again.

Michael Port: And as soon as we start to feel entitled to that attention or that credibility, that’s when we start, I think, just going down hill. So if I’ve got to earn it, I think it’s really important to people that we serve to see that you’re in it for the long haul, and that what you’re doing is going to be around for a long time to come. Because one of the ways that people infer credibility is by seeing your consistency. So, the more consistent you are, the more credible they will see you. And if what you produce consistently is something that will help them specifically, well that’s a pretty good match.

John Jantsch: Absolutely. So Michael, if I was out there thinking I want some help writing my speech, I want some help with the performance of that, I want some help on how to rehearse, tell us about Heroic Public Speaking and how you might be able to help us.

Michael Port: Well, thank you. I would love to. Look, has got tons of information. has got lots of information and, of course, free tip sheets, resources, videos that you can watch. So, we try to do our best to give you a really clear picture of how we help. But we work with both corporations, and we work with individuals, and we have a 10,000 square foot facility here in New Jersey, in an adorable little town and we run really comprehensive training programs for individuals and for organizations both here on site and at their headquarters as well.

Michael Port: But the thing that I think is important to remember, is that every single person that we work with is unique, is an individual. And we do not work with the same people in the same way, which is one of the reasons that we put so much customization into our training programs, because we think that if you see somebody that we’ve worked with and you say, “Oh yeah, that’s a Heroic Public Speaking speaker,” then we failed. Each person should be unique and what you should see is the extraordinary work that speaker is doing. But most importantly, you should see transformation in the audience. But the craft itself should be transparent.

Michael Port: So, we do a lot of customization for the people we work with and we’ll work with people individually for those whom it’s appropriate. We have online courses, in person courses, short-term courses, longterm courses. We really try to serve the different types of people that we have dedicated ourselves to based on what is most appropriate for them in the timeframe that they have available to them.

John Jantsch: Well, and as somebody who has both watched you work and been been a student of your work. I mean, I think clearly, a lot of the growth that you’ve experienced at HPS has to … is really a telltale sign of the effectiveness of the work that you’ve done.

Michael Port: Thank you so much. We are very … our net promoter score is consistently above 90, and if people aren’t familiar with net promoter score, I’ll give you a framework. Bank of America … Well, so I’ll start with Apple. Apple is about a 65 and they’re a pretty popular company, and Bank of America is about a negative 27. So, you get the … you see the range there. But for us, what we’re most proud of is that 90% of the people that we serve come from referrals from other people that we serve. And that means a lot to us.

John Jantsch: And it’s just

Michael Port: Correct.

John Jantsch: So, Michael, always great to catch up with you and hopefully we’ll see you sooner than later.

Michael Port: Thank you so much, my friend.

How to Give a Great Business Presentation

How to Give a Great Business Presentation written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Marketing Podcast with Michael Port
Podcast Transcript

Michael PortToday on the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I chat with author, professional speaker, and entrepreneur Michael Port.

Port is the co-founder and CEO of Heroic Public Speaking, where he trains entrepreneurs, professional and aspiring speakers, and executives on how to give a compelling speech that changes hearts and minds.

He is also the author of six books, including Steal the Show, which shares practical public speaking tips. A former professional actor, he now focuses his attention on helping businesses use public speaking as a marketing tool, and often appears as a communications and business development expert on MSNBC, CNBC, and PBS.

On today’s episode, Port shares his insights into everything public speaking-related—from combating nerves to rehearsing effectively to the elements that make up an effective speech.

Questions I ask Michael Port:

  • How much of public speaking is about the performance versus the content?
  • How can public speaking advance the customer journey?
  • What is the key to incorporating an effective call to action in a presentation?

What you’ll learn if you give a listen:

  • Why the amount of work you put into a presentation should be directly proportional to the stakes of the presentation.
  • How to reduce anxiety when approaching public speaking.
  • What foundational five elements are key to building a great presentation.

Key takeaways from the episode and more about Michael Port:

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by Rev.

Rev offers quick and accurate transcription services. Whether you’re looking to transcribe a video or podcast episode, want to record a meeting, hope to dictate a blog post or even a book, Rev can help you get it done.

We at Duct Tape Marketing use Rev for transcription of all our podcast episodes, and we have a special offer for you. Go to to secure a $100 coupon for new users.

A Quick and Effective Approach to Facebook Advertising

A Quick and Effective Approach to Facebook Advertising written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Facebook remains the dominant social media platform. In a recent earnings call, CEO Mark Zuckerberg shared that there are more than 2.2 million daily users on the platform. That means that small business owners who are not advertising on Facebook are missing out on an opportunity to connect with about a third of the global population.

If you’ve been thinking about Facebook advertising but are intimidated by the process of starting an ad campaign on the platform, never fear. This simple guide will help you get your first campaign up and running.

Start by Setting Goals

What are you really hoping to accomplish with your Facebook campaign? Yes, you’re hoping for more business, but how will you measure success? Set clear goals with firm numbers. Something like, “We’re hoping to increase website traffic by X percentage” will help guide you through the process much more effectively than a goal like, “find new prospects.”

Establish Your Budget

Before you dive into the actual creation of the campaign, you’ll want to know the limits of what you can actually spend. A lot of small businesses don’t set a firm budget for Facebook and end up increasing their spend month after month, chasing greater results.

That is a recipe for spending well outside your means, and will also allow the Facebook advertising platform to run you, rather than you working intelligently within a budget to get the most out of what you can actually afford to spend.

It’s best to set a daily budget when you’re first starting out. This allows you to monitor your spend more closely, and you can adjust or pause spending as you learn more about your ad costs.

Find Your Audience

Facebook advertising can allow you to stay top of mind with your existing customers and also reach a whole new audience who might also have interest in your products and services.

You should already have some information about the customers you interact with regularly. Things like age, location, and gender are ways that you can narrow down the audience for your ads. You’re able to customize all of this information, or if you don’t feel comfortable doing that just yet, Facebook can auto-select your ad placement for you.

You can also target your advertising towards people who have interacted with your business in person but haven’t necessarily encountered it online. By creating a custom audience for offline activity, you can present your advertising to people you’ve either met at in-person events or at your brick-and-mortar store (more details on how to establish a custom audience for offline activity can be found here).

You can also use the Facebook Pixel tool to install a line of code into your company’s website. This code tracks those who visit your site and will send them targeted Facebook ads based on their behavior. For example, if you own a shoe store and someone recently browsed your site for women’s shoes, you can target them with Facebook advertising for your new wedge sandals.

Facebook also allows you to create lookalike audiences using information you have on the demographics of your existing customers. You upload the information on your current customers into the Facebook ad platform, and they will generate a list of users who have similar attributes.

Settle on Your Ad Type

Facebook offers a variety of ad types of businesses. The type of ad you choose to create will depend on the goals you’ve set for your campaign.

  • Link click ads and video ads are probably what comes to mind when you picture a Facebook ad. They’re incorporated into a viewer’s newsfeed. They contain either a static image or video, and will direct traffic to your external website, to a landing page or blog post of your choice.
  • Boosted page posts are a little different. You can always post something on your business’s Facebook page for free, but you can choose to boost the post for a cost, amplifying the reach of the original post.
  • Carousel ads and collection ads also appear in viewer’s newsfeeds, and they provide them the opportunity to scroll through a variety of images. These are popular with retailers offering a variety of similar products.
  • Dynamic product ads are those ads linked up with the Google Pixel code. These ads are displayed based on a visitor’s past actions on your company’s website.
  • Lead ads contain a form within the ad, allowing viewers to download your ebook or sign up for your newsletter all from within the Facebook platform. This allows you to eliminate the steps of asking them to travel to your external website and click a call to action button there.
  • Page like ads allow you to drive visitors to your business’s Facebook page. They contain an image and text, plus a button for them to like your page.
  • Page post photo and video ads allow you to share photos or video from your Facebook page with your chosen audience.
  • App ads allow you to present viewers with a photo and an accompanying link encouraging them to download your business’s mobile app.
  • Event ads and offer claims allow you to promote a specific upcoming event or promotional offer for your business.
  • Local awareness ads allow you to target viewers within a certain geographic location. This is a great option for small local businesses hoping to reach people in their neighborhood.
  • Messenger ads are incorporated into the viewer’s Facebook Messenger feed. These messages appear alongside chats with their friends, and when they click on the ad, they can chat with your business.

Check out the guide in this article for more on which types of ads best align with which goals.

Check Your Progress

Once you’ve selected your ad type, you’re not done just yet! You’ll want to check in on how your ad is performing against the goals you set for the campaign. Continue to refine your approach as you go, tweaking your images and messaging in the ad, adjusting your target audience, or considering another ad type if you’re not getting the desired results with your present type.

Weekend Favs May 4

Weekend Favs May 4 written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

My weekend blog post routine includes posting links to a handful of tools or great content I ran across during the week.

I don’t go into depth about the finds, but encourage you to check them out if they sound interesting. The photo in the post is a favorite for the week from an online source or one that I took out there on the road.

  • WhatsApp Business – Respond to, sort, and manage conversations with customers.
  • Startup3 – Create a website with templates and coded designs.
  • Roboform – Store all of your passwords in one safe place.

These are my weekend favs, I would love to hear about some of yours – Tweet me @ducttape

Transcript of Everything You Need to Know About Podcasting

Transcript of Everything You Need to Know About Podcasting written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Back to Podcast


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John Jantsch: This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast is brought to you by SEMrush. It is our go-to SEO tool for doing audits, for tracking position and ranking, for really getting ideas on how to get more organic traffic for our clients, competitive intelligence, backlinks and things like that. All the important SEO tools that you need for pay traffic, social media, PR and of course, SEO. Check it out at We’ll have that in the show notes.

John Jantsch: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch and my guest today is John Lee Dumas. He’s the host of EOFire, an award-winning podcast that interviews successful entrepreneurs seven days a week. That’s right. Every single day except over 1,400 interview, a million monthly listeners. It’s really become not only a great place for you to get inspiration just entrepreneurially but also to learn about podcasting. We’re going to talk about a variety of things today including a new passion project that’s turned into a big business all by itself, I think. Something called The Freedom Journal. John, welcome back.

John Lee Dumas: Well, John, I’m glad to be back and to combine over 2,000 episodes which is just mind-boggling.

John Jantsch: Yeah, it really is. I’ve done it the long hard way. Well, you’ve done it the really fast cool way. Let’s start there with my guessing. Is there anything new in the world of podcasting that you’re seeing coming that you are telling people that they need to pay attention to?

John Lee Dumas: Yeah. I say over and over again, if I launched Entrepreneur On Fire today, it would fail. It would fail in 2016 because (1) I was not a good podcaster when I launched. It took me a long time to get my “interview chops” and that’s why I did it daily so I could really get to practice. Now, I’m over 1,500 episodes. If I launched the show today, it would fail because it’s too broad. It’s not niche enough. I land grabbed. I was there early enough. I wasn’t as early as you, of course, but I was there early enough where I was able to land grab and really get a name and momentum that I’ve continued to be able to build momentum, momentum, momentum. I got there because of that.

John Lee Dumas: If I wanted to launch a successful show today in 2016, I would have to find a niche. I’m not just talking like a narrow niche. I’m talking like a narrow, narrow niche where I would just say, “Hey, I’m going to dominate this topic in the podcasting world, and the area that I’m passionate about and that I have some value to give. I’m going to do it in a meaningful way.” People that launch these broad topic podcast, I think, are going to struggle because there’s just a lot of saturation out there in the broad markets, but there’s never enough niche podcast, people that find that unique value distinguisher that’s going to make them win. That’s what’s new in 2016. In my opinion, podcasting is hot. It is the golden age of podcast and you’ll hear it over and over again, but for a host, if you’re starting any time this year or next, find that narrow niche and dominate it.

John Jantsch: One of the things that I have attributed to podcasting that not everybody talks about. Obviously, there are a lot of people out there that would love to have this success in the revenue that’s come with that success directly related to podcasting that you have, but I talk a lot of small business owners and actually tell them that one of the little talked about things that podcasting can bring you is access. There are many, many people that I have gained access to because I said, “Hey, I want to interview you and promote your book” as opposed to, “Hey, I just want to talk to you for 20 minutes and pick your brain.” I think a lot of business owners miss that opportunity. I think there is a place for podcasting for somebody to just interview hot prospects in their community or people that are doing what they want to be doing in their community. What do you think about type of podcasting?

John Lee Dumas: I think that’s great. I think the regional podcast is really powerful. I look back and I’m not honestly, personally, super religious of a person, but when I first heard about podcasting, it was from my friends that were talking about going to church services or more likely missing church services and then listening to the podcast afterwards like on Monday or Tuesday. I was like “What’s a podcast? What do you mean by that?” They described and I was like “Oh.” Churches were, interestingly enough, pretty early in on the podcasting game like back in the mid 2000s. Literally, some churches were doing this for people that would miss church. They proved that it can be a regional win. The people in the community will say, “Hey, I missed that service, but I want to hear what the sermon was about. Let’s do this.” People today are winning regionally as well. I think that’s really important.

John Lee Dumas: I have a couple friends in the City of Portland, Maine where I was born and raised and actually launched EOFire back in 2012 in Portland, Maine that are doing really cool regional podcast that are being listened to because people want to know what’s happening in Portland, not just in the world. They want the niche podcast. They want the specifics. That’s why people like picking up the local newspaper because they’re going to see their kids in the high school basketball game. They’re not going to get that on USA today. That’s why local newspapers are still winning on some levels. I think regional podcast will as well.

John Jantsch: People love to talk about the tools and the technology involved in podcasting. I had Mike Stelzner on recently and he’s a social media examiner. He is always pushing me on the, “Oh, you need to do this to make your audio better and that to make your audio better.” What’s your current mic mixer recording editing software setup?

John Lee Dumas: Yeah. Let me break it down. (1) It’s so much simpler than people think. All you need is a computer, a microphone of some sorts and then recording and editing software. Those are the three things you need. 99% of people that are listening right now, (1) they have that computer. They’re good to go. To be honest, these days, a high-level android or iPhone can honestly work as well. (2) Moving into microphones, I’ll recommend three real quick because I think it’s got a good two different price levels, but my guess to be on my show at a minimum have to have the Logitech Clearchat. It’s 30 bucks. You can get it on Amazon. It’s a USP. It’ll plug into USB ports, to headsets, which is important having a headset and to really quickly get into why that will cut out echo which is really important and feedback as well.

John Lee Dumas: The Logitech Headset Clearchat is 30 bucks on Amazon, if you want to go up to what I consider a really high quality mic. It’s actually my number one recommendation. Combining cost and quality, that’s the ATR 2100. ATR 2100, 80 bucks on Amazon. It’s an amazing quality mic. My number one when you combine the cost and quality. I’m on a Heil PR-40. It’s 350 bucks. It’s not cheap. To be honest, if I was launching a podcast today, I’d be going ATR 2100 all the way downtown. The Heil PR-40 is a broadcast quality mic, but until you really generate significant revenue, the ATR 2100 is all you need. Honestly, people like Tim Ferriss, he was one of the top ranked business podcast, that’s what he uses. People don’t complain about his audio. They just love the show. For recording and editing software, I’m obsessed with Adobe Audition. That is 20 bucks a month. You have to subscribe to the Adobe Creative Cloud for that. I recorded and edited all 1,500 EOFire episodes in Adobe Audition.

John Lee Dumas: If you want to go free, you have Audacity, which is great for MAC and PC. If you want to go MAC because you’re a MAC lover, then GarageBand works really great as well. Again, that’s to record and edit your episodes and then you’re good to go. That’s a podcast. You just need to submit it to iTunes.

John Jantsch: Adobe Audition works PC, MAC too, right?

John Lee Dumas: Yes, it does both.

John Jantsch: It doesn’t matter. Right. Yeah. What about a mixer? Again, I know, now, we’re going down the rabbit hole of making-

John Lee Dumas: Sure.

John Jantsch: …this more complex, but I found that when I switched to just a little simple two-channel mixer, it powered my mic a lot better.

John Lee Dumas: Yeah. I think a mixer can add benefit, for sure. I recommend for people that struggle with the techy stuff, just don’t even go with a mixer, personally. Again, that would be me launching today. Now, I launched in 2012 and I hired people like Cliff Ravenscraft too as a tech geek. I love him for it. He set me up with a PreSonus FireStudio mixer and Firewire that goes into my MAC. This is the setup that I’ve had since 2012. I just pressed the power button. That’s why it works for me because I don’t touch anything. I don’t touch the knobs. I’m just good to go, but with computers, as they are today, with the audio cards in them and with Adobe Audition, Audacity or GarageBand, whichever one you choose, they have FX and that’s just the letter FX that you can just add to improve the audio. I personally don’t think you need a mixer like you use to, but like you said, it can help with the boost and the gain and taking out some of the hissing noises that is best to do at the source rather than after the fact.

John Jantsch: Plus, I sound so much sexier with a little reverb don’t you think?

John Lee Dumas: You do sound sexy, I would say.

John Jantsch: What do you do after you hit stop? Again, I don’t want to go down this whole road of all the technical stuff.

John Lee Dumas: Sure.

John Jantsch: I’m more interested in the fact that you produce so many shows. You, obviously, are getting some help after you hit stop. I’m guessing that, maybe, the last time you fuzz with the actual podcast.

John Lee Dumas: Yeah. I have a whole team now at, again, Episode 1500 four years later. From day one, I learned it. I got my hands dirty. I learned everything. I think it’s important to know how to do these things because if you don’t know how to do these things, you don’t know how to train your team to do these things. I really am glad that I got my hands dirty and I can do all of this stuff. The editing, the exporting, the uploading into the media host, like all of those things I can do, but I have a team in place now that when I hit the stop button, they take it and they run. I do go back. I have my little checks and balances where I’m making sure that everything has been uploaded correctly to the media host and to iTunes into my website, but it’s very minimal, the work that I do after the stop button because my team is in place. It took me years to get here. I think that people should not be afraid of getting their hands dirty to start.

John Jantsch: I completely agree. The technology has gotten so simple to use. Once you know how to do it or once you know how you want your process done, it’s really easy to make a checklist for a virtual assistant to do most of these steps because they all have access to these tools today too.

John Lee Dumas: It’s unbelievable. I actually run the world’s largest podcasting community, Podcasters’ Paradise. Every week, I’m doing a free podcast masterclass for anybody that wants to attend. In that masterclass, I show people the eight steps, all the way from hitting record all the way to submitting to iTunes. There’s eight steps. I show you how to do those eight steps live. I do it live during this workshop in under three minutes. Once you know it, it’s super simple.

John Jantsch: Yeah. That’s so great too because I think part of what holds people back is, they’re thinking, “Oh, who has hours everyday to be doing this podcast?”

John Lee Dumas: Right.

John Jantsch: You’re right. It’s simple.

John Lee Dumas: Right.

John Jantsch: What do you think about the rush to live video that’s going on right now? Again, I know that’s not podcasting but in some ways, it fits into that medium, that space. Are you a fan of it or you think it’s here to stay, you think it’s a fan?

John Lee Dumas: I’m a fan of it. I think that when you have built up an audience, that audience does want more of you. They want more behind the scenes. They want more little tidbits. I actually have a thing that I call JLD rants where I will use video. I’m actually, personally, not a huge, what I would call, “live video person” as much as I am nearly live video person. I say that because I do use, pretty much, daily SnapChat, Instagram stories and Instagram. When I hit publish, it’s immediately available to the world, but I’m not recording it live like I can do a 10-second video on SnapChat and be like, “Oh, that was terrible.” I can redo it and redo it until I like it. Then I publish it, and then it’s available to the world. It’s not, for me, technically live. It’s like near live.

John Lee Dumas: I think some people are fighting a lot of success with stuff that is live like Facebook Live and be a good example. Like Periscope, before Facebook Live came in and butted them out. That is something that I’m seeing people use to build audiences, but I think there’s a really big concern here going back to what I said about the land grab is, there’s a lot of noise out there in this world, a lot of noise. Unless you have an audience that knows, likes and trust you because you built that up through different channels and you have something of meaning to say, then I think you’re going to lose when it comes to live video. Why I think Periscope personally lost and a lot of people within Periscope wasted a ton of time, because they had flip on Periscope and they would bring their face, want it from the screen and they’d be like “Oh, John, thanks for coming. Where are you from? Okay. Yeah. Sarah from Ohio.”

John Lee Dumas: Nobody wants to tune in consistently or something where you’re just welcoming people and shouting out where they’re from. Once you’ve heard your name a couple times, that cool feeling rubs off. Now, people want meaning. They want value. That’s why Gary Vaynerchuck is blowing up. Not to mention, he’s also investing a ton of money boosting his stuff because he has disposable income to put $300, $400, $500 into each one of his videos to really force it into people’s feeds because it’s paid a play when it comes to Facebook. I think the live video is a great way to practice. It’s a great way to really start to try to build that audience who knows, likes and trust you, but just be careful that you’re not just adding more noise to the world. You have to add value.

John Jantsch: Yeah. I think that, again, this sounds so silly to have to keep saying all the time, but there has to be a purpose, there has to be a strategy.

John Lee Dumas: Yeah.

John Jantsch: Am I there to promote other things I’m doing? Am I there to try to give another flavor to the content that people already like. That’s where, I think, you’re right. A lot of people just turn it on and go, “Okay.”

John Lee Dumas: To put an exclamation point on your point is, every time I flip on SnapChat, I have a quote that I’m inspired by. I have a list of 1,000 quotes that I love. What I’ll do is, I’ll say, “Hey, guys. This is a quote that I love from a great entrepreneur. I’ll obviously give the name and the credit to that person.” Then I’ll say, “No, I want to do a rant on this quote about how I think it affects us as entrepreneurs today.” Every one of my SnapChat rants, my Instagram story rants, my Instagram videos, they are all on purpose with a point where I’m saying, “Okay, there’s this great quote by Henry Ford.” Then I’ll go through it and then I’ll say, “Now, this is where I think you can take that quote and use it today.” For me, they’re all mini stories, mini rants off of meaningful words from successful entrepreneurs.

John Jantsch: Let’s now shift gears and talk a little bit about a project that you have been working on, I don’t know, I’m going to say, it seems like a year maybe. It’s been more than a year.

John Lee Dumas: Yeah, two years.

John Jantsch: Two years. Okay,, a different home for what we’re going to talk about today. Let’s describe that. What is The Freedom Journal?

John Lee Dumas:  It was in early January of 2015 where I just hit the tipping point where so many of my listeners of EOFire, what I call, whom I lovingly refer to, I should say, as Fire Nation were just asking met this question over and over again for the years leading up to 2015. Finally, this was like “Okay, this question is so important to people.” That was like “John, you now interviewed thousands of successful entrepreneurs, what’s their secret to success?” My answer, up to that point was always, “They work hard. Hard work is such an important ingredient.” That absolutely, it remains at the forefront of what I say to people to this day. That’s such an important ingredient, but I knew that I wanted to give them more as well.

John Lee Dumas: I really look to people like you, John, who are on my show Episode 563 and other great entrepreneurs like Tony Robbins, Barbara Corcoran, Brian Tracy that I’ve interviewed and I said, “All of my past guests, they know how to set and accomplish goals.” That just kept coming up when I was doing this in-depth study back in early 2015. I said, “Okay, how can I create a tool, a solution? How can I bridge that gap where my guests were successful entrepreneurs are setting and accomplishing meaningful goals and winning and a lot of my listeners are not in losing? How can I fix that? How can I create a solution?” That’s where the idea for The Freedom Journal came. I knew I wanted it to be special. I wanted it not to just be like a PDF or something like an app, like that could be easily replicated or just hitting on a desktop. I wanted it to be special.

John Lee Dumas: I knew from day one it was going to be this gorgeous, stunning, hard cover journal that someone would be proud to hold. I set about learning everything that I could learn about goals and the setting of them and the accomplishing of them. It took me a full year to create the content within The Freedom Journal. Then fast forward to January of 2016, coming up on a year ago, I launched The Freedom Journal via Kickstarter. I didn’t know what people in 2016 were going to think about a hard cover journal. God forbid, it’s not virtual or in the clouds, so who knew but I trusted that this was something that was needed and it just went viral. It became the sixth most funded publishing campaign of all time. It did $453,000 in just 33 days. Again, this is for a $39 journal. We did over 9,000 sales of The Freedom Journal in just those 33 days.

John Lee Dumas: You, being an author, John, you know that book sales are pretty hard to come from. This is what I’ve been told by other big time authors, if you get over 1,500 sales, you’re starting to get into the 1%. In 33 days, boom. On that 9,000 sales as we are speaking today, I’m over 14,000 Freedom Journal sold. Again, this is not a $9 book. This is a $39 hard cover journal. It just connected with people. They saw that they could actually have an accountability partner that wouldn’t let them fail because that’s what it is. It’s a step by step guide to setting a smart goal, specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, time bound. Then accomplishing that goal in 100 days through daily tasks, nightly recaps, 10-day sprints. Every 10 days you’re accomplishing a micro goal, quarterly reviews. You’re looking back over the previous 25 days. You’re seeing what worked to amplify that or what didn’t work to make adjustments and shift so that by day 100, you’ve accomplished your number one goal.

John Jantsch: As I listen to you describe that, that’s actually the path that I have proposed for most business owners. You have your annual planning, which, maybe, that’s where you set your big audacious goal for the year but obviously, then you got to break it down into focus priorities for the quarter and then all those priorities break down into many, many little tasks and then you just start going to work on daily and weekly. Not only an individual goal planning, I think it’s a tremendous … maybe you ought to have a sub freedom journal and created as a business planning too.

John Lee Dumas: Yeah. That’s not-

John Jantsch: Then people think that was really boring.

John Lee Dumas: …co-branding, John.

John Jantsch: Let’s do it. Let’s do it. I’m up for it.

John Lee Dumas: Yes.

John Jantsch: I think it’s a great idea. The one thing I want to look back to and then let’s talk a little bit about why The Freedom Journal has been so successful in your mind, this isn’t new information. How many people for years and years and years have talked about setting smart goals? What stops people from doing it? I think intellectually, everybody gets it, but why don’t they take action or stick with it?

John Lee Dumas: I think it’s overwhelming. I think people, when they look at what they want to grow in 2016, they have so many options. They have the website to build, the podcast to create, the blogs, to write the email list, to grow, the YouTube videos, the social media. They have everything. They just get overwhelmed. They get distracted. They lose focus. That’s why The Freedom Journal was incredibly focused on accomplishing your number one goal in 100 days. The subtitle is not accomplish all of your life goals in 100 days because that’s why people fail. They set too many goals with too many different endpoints. They don’t have that time boundedness, which is so critical. That’s why that 100 days is in there. They just get so distracted. Life, frankly, just takes over.

John Lee Dumas: For me, I know, looking back at my journey that setting the one goal of launching EOFire, which I did in about three, three and a half months. It was right around 100 days, which again, back then in 2012, I wasn’t thinking I had 100 days, but looking back on it and I was confused, I was like “Wow, that actually took me just about 100 days, but I really had to stick to a plan.” I had a mentor that was guiding me every step of the way. I know that by me setting the goal of launching EOFire and then accomplishing that goal by launching it about three, three and a half months later, that was me knocking over the one big Domino that was the result for the chain reaction of awesome that happened post EOFire. If I was trying to do 100 different things and I never launch EOFire, I would have been successful at nothing because EOFire was the catalyst for all of my success. That had to become real. That had to become published for me to do anything of significance or substance from that point forward.

John Lee Dumas: Once I did press publish with EOFire, that Domino knocked over all these other things that have since led to us today where we’re generating multiple six figures of revenue every single month from very diverse streams of income. Sometimes 10 and sometimes up to 15 every single month which we report at because we wanted to share how our business has grown from accomplishing one goal, launching a podcast.

John Jantsch: It’s the classic example of doing more by really focusing on less.

John Lee Dumas: Yeah, so much.

John Jantsch: I think that that’s the typical business owner. It’s like “Okay, we’re going to do our annual plan and here are our 12 strategic initiatives” and nobody can hold more than two or three at the most and really have any accountability. It really does apply. Let’s say you accomplish that one goal in 90 days or 100 days. Is it then simply a matter of saying, “Okay, what’s the next big one and let’s put that in the hopper”?

John Lee Dumas: Absolutely. Because that’s what I was really seeing that my guest were succeeding in. They were setting that one big goal, accomplishing that meaningful goal and then saying, “Okay now that I’ve accomplished this incredibly meaningful goal, what’s next?” For me, it was Podcasters’ Paradise, which is now over 3,000 members over $4 million in revenue, but that goal could never have been set without accomplishing the first one first. It’s one step at a time. Now, of course, you’re doing and accomplishing other things along the way. That’s really important to do, but your one clear, concise focus is on one thing. Right now, I have one focus. One focus right now and that’s on the next journal that I’m launching this coming January. Nothing else matters to me. That is my one focus. I will accomplish other things along the way, but I will absolutely make sure that that number one focus gets accomplished for the January 23rd launch because that is my number one.

John Jantsch: Well, what that allows you to do is make choices, right? You get asked to do this. You get asked to do that. You get asked to do that. Well, now, it’s like “Well, this one serves my goal. These two don’t.” Easy choice, right?

John Lee Dumas: Yes.

John Jantsch: There has been a lot written about these dual principles of attention and intention. I’d love to hear your thoughts on that. The idea of intention, meaning, “Here’s where I want to go. Here is my goal,” but then the attention part is, “Okay, so here are the things or the three things that I have to focus on in order to meet that goal.” I think what happens is, not enough people really carefully construct both of those elements.

John Lee Dumas: I think a lot of people don’t construct, sometimes, either of those elements. That can be a really big struggle. I’m curious. I’m turning this back on you, John, because I’m curious about where you’re coming from for this. What’s an example of where you’ve seen this happen, like maybe from your audience?

John Jantsch: Well, yeah. My intention that drives me and of course, it’s evolved over the years, but my intention and what really got me going on Duct Tape Marketing was that I saw a lot of small business owners doing what I think is the funnest thing in the world, owning your own business, but it was taking the life out of them because they couldn’t figure out the marketing part. My intention is somewhat of a mission to save small business owners from themselves, one small business owner at a time or to ultimately have millions of small businesses, small business owners that now have a much richer life because they’ve been able to figure out this marketing thing. That, ultimately, is my intention but that’s a pretty big thing.

John Jantsch: My attention, then, is on quarterly almost, “Okay, what’s going to move me towards that goal? Well, perfecting this system or building this tool or having this conversation.” Those become the things that are the priorities, so to speak, for the quarter that I know are driving me towards that bigger thing, that there’ll be more big rocks that come along each quarter, but that the ultimate thing driving me is that one thing that is the intention of my entire business.

John Lee Dumas: I think it’s important that we do realize that this is the journey. This is the journey that we’re on and a lot of people just have this end goal. You see this happen in Silicon Valley all the time. You have people that literally kill themselves for years and they sacrifice everything else for that one IPO, that one sale. They think that that’s going to just solve everything and change the world, and then they finally … 99.9% of them end up failing and it never works. They go back to ground zero but the 0.1% that actually even does work for, they’re just like “Oh my God, what’s next? Now, I have no purpose in life. This was my life.” They never achieved any kind of balance, any semblance of understanding that is the journey. It’s all about the journey and that’s with your quarterly and annual goals and my 100 days. It’s about recognizing and experiencing the journey, intentionally.

John Jantsch: I think if you have a big enough, what I’ve referred to as intention, it’s like the horizon. It’s going to keep moving away from you. You almost want to have something that you never can actually-

John Lee Dumas: Never.

John Jantsch: …ultimately realize, but then it’s important to turn around and say, “Wow, look how far we’ve come,” occasionally. John, thanks so much for joining us. I’m talking to John Lee Dumas. He is the host of EOFire. Find it at Of course, we talked, today, a little bit about The Freedom Journal, and maybe you’ll come back in January of 2017 and we’ll talk about your new project.

John Lee Dumas:  Well, I’d love that.

John Jantsch: I hope to see you out there on the road.

John Lee Dumas: Definitely.

Everything You Need to Know About Podcasting

Everything You Need to Know About Podcasting written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Marketing Podcast with John Lee Dumas
Podcast Transcript

John Lee DumasOk, so maybe the title of this post is a little bold, but in this episode, I talk mostly about podcasting with one of the most prolific podcasters on the planet.

If you’re a longtime reader you know that I think podcasting is an amazing tool for lead generation as well as audience building.

My guest for this week’s episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is John Lee Dumas. John is is the founder and host of the award-winning podcast EOFire, where he interviews successful entrepreneurs seven days a week. He is also the author of The Freedom Journal, a hard-cover journal that helps guides you to accomplishing your biggest goal in 100 days. As you may have guessed from the title and this introduction, John and I talk about podcasting.

John wasn’t always a podcasting phenomenon. The day he graduated from college, John joined the Army and served our country for seven years before attending law school. After deciding law school wasn’t the right fit, he ventured into the corporate world and lived in Boston, New York and San Diego, where he discovered podcasting. Fast-forward to today, John has over 1 million monthly listeners.

Questions I ask John Lee Dumas:

  • Is there anything new in the world of podcasting that people should be paying attention to?
  • What does your process look like once you’ve finished recording an episode?
  • What are your thoughts on the hype around live video?

What you’ll learn if you give a listen:

  • Why choosing a niche is critical for a successful podcast.
  • What tools are recommended for podcast production and post-production.
  • The importance of goal setting and how to accomplish these goals.

Key takeaways from the episode and more about John Lee Dumas:

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by SEMrush.

SEMrush is our go-to SEO tool for everything from tracking position and ranking to doing audits to getting new ideas for generating organic traffic. They have all the important tools you need for paid traffic, social media, PR, and SEO. Check it out at